Received: from mail-qc0-f188.google.com ([209.85.216.188]:64319) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WdYu7-0006Yn-IE for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:42:38 -0700 Received: by mail-qc0-f188.google.com with SMTP id i17sf668995qcy.15 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:42:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=AAEcNTW5F17VueuzqxHOQ6KacJdVUvtfsj3Mn+tqkE4=; b=KW3BdDT1ccRkVbGQG/k6C4Hz3r0b5u1NAmihXxbrLRrHdEuYzq6bcuVFBNHBR7LpbC qf0Eyo3wVdSslv7RDPeWjNeYjzAeiOlKBjNZ16QHcSmfp7dHk7sjVri5p89SiSIPcrip 1n+lylEIsZrM4dpirGsvD6+6kQY1MBvyC9bj9wVOHOPO/w0XMDxBr87b8AFyUyAa+x67 WB2nwSYmkG4wDLeaXMJzrLfqdBf9pFpGG6PLS6UPYYZx8cEM/PgGMY8oe+mm+/lGOEuk iMPV6kLuw+QrAG3+GokghpLhSVk+mJ0oS9kffjnzR8AKfxOVoFFwJ6Z6U32krHqE/DRW rDbQ== X-Received: by 10.140.86.50 with SMTP id o47mr298qgd.40.1398404545275; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:42:25 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.40.74 with SMTP id w68ls1404131qgw.53.gmail; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:42:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.84.141 with SMTP id s13mr3382036yhe.5.1398404544810; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x22e.google.com (mail-qg0-x22e.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id n7si2518979qcz.2.2014.04.24.22.42.24 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of durka42@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e; Received: by mail-qg0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id q107so3508490qgd.33 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:42:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.115.68 with SMTP id h4mr8555888qaq.35.1398404544691; Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:42:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.3] (c-69-249-31-89.hsd1.nj.comcast.net. [69.249.31.89]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id r14sm8327037qga.4.2014.04.24.22.42.22 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 24 Apr 2014 22:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2014 01:42:21 -0400 From: Alex Burka To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <0CF6A7BB14AF45A391D95F07F1D9125C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <2368f1c8-1a70-4dfc-b657-a17ec590ba02@googlegroups.com> <85b3adb5-9bb1-4412-a14e-50755151b785@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Imperative mi'o? X-Mailer: sparrow 1.6.4 (build 1178) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: durka42@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of durka42@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=durka42@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="5359f5bd_43f18422_64bc" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --5359f5bd_43f18422_64bc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On Thursday, April 24, 2014 at 12:45 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >=20 >=20 >=20 > 2014-04-24 19:42 GMT+04:00 .neit. : > > So I gather the following summary in answer (in no particular order):= =20 > > =20 > > 1) Specify to whom {ko} refers in the same way you would specify to wh= om {do} refers - using {doi} and it's vocative family > > 2) Logically connect the sumti {mi .e ko klama} > >=20 >=20 >=20 > I dont think 2) is correct at all. It states that I go, no command toward= s me is present. .ieru'e je'a gendra gi'u smudra=20 > =20 > > 3) Use the experimental {ko'oi} such that {zo ko du lu do ko'oi li'u} > > 4) Assign {ko} as though it were an assignable sumka'i using {goi} > > =20 > > mi ckire fo lo rodo sidju > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 na gendra. To nitpick, you wanted {fi}, and I think you dropped a {nu}.=20 > > =20 > > I tend to prefer #1. I don't recall reading that {ko} works as an assi= gnable sumka'i, so I hesitate to use 4). > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 Searching at alexburka.com/~danr (http://alexburka.com/~danr) I find 5 uses= of {ko goi}, all on IRC, but 2 of them are nonsense and the other 3 are qu= eries to the parser-bot. There are 4 results for {goi ko}, all of which are= real sentences, for example {lo gerku goi ko bajra}. So, the usage parses,= and was said at least once on the Internet, but yes it's a strange and rar= e production. Probably {doi gerku ko bajra} is more readily understood (and= shorter!).=20 > > I'm still learning the language, and I'm teaching my wife and 4 and 7 y= ear-old sons, > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 .ue .iosai=20 > > so as a personal preference I'm avoiding the use of experimental valsi = until we all have a better command of the language, so 3)'s out. Logical c= onnection looks like a good solution and adds the flexability of connective= s to imperatives {ko .u mi nitcu klama caku} (heh. ma xe fanva zoi .gy. sa= ve yourself! .gy. la lojban). > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 {.iicai ko nurxru ko}=20 > > Similarly, assigning {ko} like you would {do} seems similarly flexible.= =20 > > =20 > > I'll go with 1) and 2), and perhaps expand to 3) later. > >=20 > >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 .i'e=20 > > =20 > > Thanks again for your answers! > > =20 > > mi'e .neit. mu'o > >=20 > > On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:37:48 PM UTC-4, .neit. wrote: > > > Say you were at a dinner with some Lojbanic friends. You and your si= gnificant other must leave early for whatever reason. You want to look at = him/her and say "mi'o klama" so that all listening know that you mean just = yourself and your partner. But at the same time, you want it to come acros= s as an imperative "ko klama". > > > =20 > > > How would you handle this? mi'oko? Can you make personal sumka'i ot= her than "do" imperative? (eg: do'oko, ma'ako etc?) > > > =20 > > > Or would you just decide that it's foolish to take the imperative wit= h your significant other and instead say ".e'o mi'o klama"? > > > =20 > > > .i'o ki'e rodo > > > =20 > > > mu'o mi'e neit > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 > > --=20 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "lojban" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send = an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com). > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com (mailto:lo= jban@googlegroups.com). > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Go= ogle Groups "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/l= ojban/jozM2T1ozaY/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to lojba= n+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com)= . > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojb= an@googlegroups.com). > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --5359f5bd_43f18422_64bc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline

=20

On Thursday, April 24, 2014 at= 12:45 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:




= 2014-04-24 19:42 GMT+04:00 .neit. <kosmikconundrum@gmail.com&g= t;:
So I gather the following summ= ary in answer (in no particular order):
 
1)  Specify to whom {ko} refers in the same way you would specify= to whom {do} refers - using {doi} and it's vocative family
2)  Logically connect the sumti {mi .e ko klama}

I dont think 2) is correct at all. It states th= at I go, no command towards me is present.
.ieru'e je'a gendra gi'u smudra 
 
3)  Use the experimental {ko'oi} such that {zo ko du lu do k= o'oi li'u}
4)  Assign {ko} as though it were an assignable sumka'i using {go= i}
 
mi ckire fo lo rodo sidju
na gendra. To nitpick, you wanted = {fi}, and I think you dropped a {nu}. 
 
I tend to prefer #1.  I don't recall reading that {ko} works as a= n assignable sumka'i, so I hesitate to use 4).
Searching at = = alexburka.com/~danr I find 5 uses of {ko goi}, all on IRC, but 2 o= f them are nonsense and the other 3 are queries to the parser-bot. There ar= e 4 results for {goi ko}, all of which are real sentences, for example {lo = gerku goi ko bajra}. So, the usage parses, and was said at least once on th= e Internet, but yes it's a strange and rare production. Probably {doi gerku= ko bajra} is more readily understood (and shorter!). 
I'm still learning the lang= uage, and I'm teaching my wife and 4 and 7 year-old sons,
=
.ue .io= sai 
so= as a personal preference I'm avoiding the use of experimental valsi until&= nbsp;we all have a better command of the language, so 3)'s out.  = Logical connection looks like a good solution and adds the flexability of c= onnectives to imperatives {ko .u mi nitcu klama caku} (heh.  ma xe fan= va zoi .gy. save yourself! .gy. la lojban).
<= /div>
{.iicai ko nurxru ko}=  
Sim= ilarly, assigning {ko} like you would {do} seems similarly flexible.  =
 
I'll go with 1) and 2), and perhaps expand to 3) later.
.i'e=  
 
Thanks again for your answers!
 
mi'e .neit. mu'o

On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:37:48 PM UTC-4, .neit. wrote:
Say you were at a dinner with some Lojbanic friends.  You and you= r significant other must leave early for whatever reason.  You want to= look at him/her and say "mi'o klama" so that all listening know that you m= ean just yourself and your partner.  But at the same time, you want it= to come across as an imperative "ko klama".
 
How would you handle this?  mi'oko?  Can you make personal s= umka'i other than "do" imperative?  (eg: do'oko, ma'ako etc?)
 
Or would you just decide that it's foolish to take the imperative= with your significant other and instead say ".e'o mi'o klama"?
 
.i'o ki'e rodo
 
mu'o mi'e neit

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Goog= le Groups "lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/l= ojban/jozM2T1ozaY/unsubscribe.
To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 =20 =20 =20 =20
=20

=20

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--5359f5bd_43f18422_64bc--