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Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 00:38:57 -0600
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Subject: Re: [lojban] the future of Lojban's leadership
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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Is this for the position of BDFL, which encompasses all of Robin's current
powers/responsibilities/etc., or some subset of them?


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 12:09 AM, Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com> wrote:

>  coi lo jbopre
>
> My name is Dustin and you might know me as ldlework or mokau or cadgu'a.
>  I'm
> writing to announce the current motion to nominate selpa'i as the current
> warden
> for the language in a provisionally official capacity contingent on the
> general
> attitudes professed by the community's response to the motion. selpa'i
> would be
> replacing Robin Lee Powell in this position.
>
> Currently, the IRC and Facebook communities have been approached. The
> response so
> far has been extremely positive with a current count of 20 to 1 in favor
> of the
> motion. Broca of the BPFK has given his provisional support of the motion
> and Ali
> Sajid Imami of the LLG has given positive approval.
>
> Robin Lee Powell has declared that he will abstain from voting explicitly,
> citing
> personal reasons but has offered the following words (edited for clarity):
>
> rlpowell:   I confirm [that] I'd [just] as soon someone else took my
> Lojbanic authority.
> rlpowell:   I'm ever so slightly mildly skeptical about selpa'i
> specifically because
>             he's not well known throughout the community the way I was.
> rlpowell: I'm mildly worried that his lack of presence there will lead to
> schism or something.
> rlpowell: Having said that, I certainly don't know of anybody *better*
> suited for the job.
> rlpowell: and I, personally, like him and his attitude towards Lojban.
>
>
> So what will this actually mean for the community and the language?
>
> As it stands Lojban is a vibrant community of speakers of a wide range of
> fluency.
> At the tail end, some extremely active and hard-working jbopre have, over
> the
> years, contributed many efforts to the language such as translations,
> music but
> also proposals of enhancements or refinements of various aspects of the
> language
> including its grammar, cmavo and general lexicon. However without an active
> leadership many of these modifications remain in conversational limbo
> where they
> are discussed for years in vain since there is no explicit mechanism for
> integration into the language or lexicon. New speakers get confused at the
> apparent lack of consensus.
>
> selpa'i would be the figurehead for the re-activation of this explicit
> mechanism for
> integration. If you are familiar with software development, this
> responsibility is
> synonymous with that of a repository maintainer. In that sense, he will
> have the
> authority to merge pull requests back into the repository thereby making
> the change
> "official". The authority to perform the "last-step" approval or
> disapproval of any
> of the number of outstanding or future proposals that may take place is
> what allows
> the language to continue to evolve and adapt to the creativity and usage
> of its
> userbase.
>
> I ask that everyone refrain from accusations of dictatorship and other
> similarly
> colored arguments. Lojban has always had an acting leadership for all of
> the
> utilities mentioned above. The motion should not in anyway be interpreted
> that
> selpa'i is solely responsible for engineering proposals and that all our
> own
> responsibilities to partake in the creative process have been revoked. On
> the
> contrary, with an actually active leadership we hope that the motion will
> encourage
> those who tend to think very deeply about the nuance of Lojban's various
> systems to
> feel more confident that they have a venue through which their ideas may
> actually
> one day be realized.
>
> Furthermore, if selpa'i is indeed found to be an acceptable leader for our
> lovely
> language a major effort will be made to "open source" the language. We
> have a PEG
> grammar, reference material, and a lexicon all of which are data that can
> be
> managed with principles and procedures that more resemble the management
> of a
> software development. The intention is to make the entire process
> extremely more
> visible and open with actual mechanisms for structured review and
> integration just
> like in the software world. I hope it is readily apparent how this could
> be an
> incredible boon for the direct democracy that so many desire.
>
> Lastly, I will speak a bit about selpa'i himself. As I have known him, he
> has
> demonstrated a prowess of the language that I have yet to see matched in a
> demonstrated way. His deep familiarity with not only the various
> grammatical
> systems but their nuance, their great qualities and their systemic
> inefficiencies
> is really inspiring. As one of the most active jbopre, he continuously
> emits
> high-quality literary translations, and even music. He is an active Lojban
> teacher with a number of current students that he lectures and gives formal
> training to. The guy can *rap* in Lojban :) I invite you to read his
> active blog
> which is where most of his published thinking on Lojban resides:
> http://selpahi.weebly.com/ *
> and also many of his Lojban writings are available at:
> http://selpahi.de/
>
> * NB: The blog posts are proposals only! I think they show a depth of
> thinking
> about the language. But the intended work is completely community-driven
> and
> no-one intends to implement proposals without wide support.
>
> Here is a current log of everyone who has given a direct response to the
> motion
> (which will be updated as the motion is on-going):
>
> https://gist.github.com/durka/cdf733d1ec95333fb9e7
>
> Here is log of the discussion that has taken place on facebook as of this
> writing: https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell/115350f17f09efc9aa3f
>
> Please, use this thread to voice your approval or disapproval for this
> motion. If
> you disapprove it is enough to say so and give a bit of reasoning behind
> why you
> think so. Long digressions will make it difficult to ascertain an accurate
> distilling of everyone's approval or disapproval. Nays will be counted
> regardless
> of their length! :)
>
> Thank you for reading! If you'd like to participate in a more real-time
> discourse,
> I highly encourage you to visit #lojban on Freenode IRC. If you're
> unfamiliar with that, you can use http://webchat.freenode.net/ to join.
>
> .i finti fa la'o gy Dustin Lacewell gy no'u la'o irci ldlework irci no'u
> la mokau
> .i cusku'i fa la'o gy Alex Burka gy no'u la'o irci durka42 irci
> .i mu'o
>
>   --
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> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Is this for the position of BDFL, which encompasses all of=
 Robin&#39;s current powers/responsibilities/etc., or some subset of them?<=
br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, May 15, 2014 at 12:09 AM, Alex Burka <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:durka42@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">durka42@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div>
                    <div>coi lo jbopre</div><div><br></div><div>My name is =
Dustin and you might know me as ldlework or mokau or cadgu&#39;a. =A0I&#39;=
m</div><div>writing to announce the current motion to nominate selpa&#39;i =
as the current warden</div>
<div>for the language in a provisionally official capacity contingent on th=
e general</div><div>attitudes professed by the community&#39;s response to =
the motion. selpa&#39;i would be</div><div>replacing Robin Lee Powell in th=
is position.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Currently, the IRC and Facebook communities have been a=
pproached. The response so</div><div>far has been extremely positive with a=
 current count of 20 to 1 in favor of the</div><div>motion. Broca of the BP=
FK has given his provisional support of the motion and Ali</div>
<div>Sajid Imami of the LLG has given positive approval.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Robin Lee Powell has declared that he will abstain from voting expli=
citly, citing</div><div>personal reasons but has offered the following word=
s (edited for clarity):</div>
<div><br></div><div>rlpowell: =A0 I confirm [that] I&#39;d [just] as soon s=
omeone else took my Lojbanic authority.</div><div>rlpowell: =A0 I&#39;m eve=
r so slightly mildly skeptical about selpa&#39;i specifically because</div>
<div>=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 he&#39;s not well known throughout the communi=
ty the way I was.</div><div>rlpowell:<span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">	=
</span>I&#39;m mildly worried that his lack of presence there will lead to =
schism or something.</div>
<div>rlpowell:<span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">	</span>Having said that=
, I certainly don&#39;t know of anybody *better* suited for the job.</div><=
div>rlpowell:<span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">	</span>and I, personally=
, like him and his attitude towards Lojban.</div>
<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>So what will this actually mean for the =
community and the language?</div><div><br></div><div>As it stands Lojban is=
 a vibrant community of speakers of a wide range of fluency.</div><div>
At the tail end, some extremely active and hard-working jbopre have, over t=
he</div><div>years, contributed many efforts to the language such as transl=
ations, music but</div><div>also proposals of enhancements or refinements o=
f various aspects of the language</div>
<div>including its grammar, cmavo and general lexicon. However without an a=
ctive</div><div>leadership many of these modifications remain in conversati=
onal limbo where they</div><div>are discussed for years in vain since there=
 is no explicit mechanism for</div>
<div>integration into the language or lexicon. New speakers get confused at=
 the</div><div>apparent lack of consensus.</div><div><br></div><div>selpa&#=
39;i would be the figurehead for the re-activation of this explicit mechani=
sm for</div>
<div>integration. If you are familiar with software development, this respo=
nsibility is</div><div>synonymous with that of a repository maintainer. In =
that sense, he will have the</div><div>authority to merge pull requests bac=
k into the repository thereby making the change</div>
<div>&quot;official&quot;. The authority to perform the &quot;last-step&quo=
t; approval or disapproval of any</div><div>of the number of outstanding or=
 future proposals that may take place is what allows</div><div>the language=
 to continue to evolve and adapt to the creativity and usage of its</div>
<div>userbase.</div><div><br></div><div>I ask that everyone refrain from ac=
cusations of dictatorship and other similarly</div><div>colored arguments. =
Lojban has always had an acting leadership for all of the</div><div>utiliti=
es mentioned above. The motion should not in anyway be interpreted that</di=
v>
<div>selpa&#39;i is solely responsible for engineering proposals and that a=
ll our own</div><div>responsibilities to partake in the creative process ha=
ve been revoked. On the</div><div>contrary, with an actually active leaders=
hip we hope that the motion will encourage</div>
<div>those who tend to think very deeply about the nuance of Lojban&#39;s v=
arious systems to</div><div>feel more confident that they have a venue thro=
ugh which their ideas may actually</div><div>one day be realized.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Furthermore, if selpa&#39;i is indeed found to be an ac=
ceptable leader for our lovely</div><div>language a major effort will be ma=
de to &quot;open source&quot; the language. We have a PEG</div><div>grammar=
, reference material, and a lexicon all of which are data that can be</div>
<div>managed with principles and procedures that more resemble the manageme=
nt of a</div><div>software development. The intention is to make the entire=
 process extremely more</div><div>visible and open with actual mechanisms f=
or structured review and integration just</div>
<div>like in the software world. I hope it is readily apparent how this cou=
ld be an</div><div>incredible boon for the direct democracy that so many de=
sire.</div><div><br></div><div>Lastly, I will speak a bit about selpa&#39;i=
 himself. As I have known him, he has</div>
<div>demonstrated a prowess of the language that I have yet to see matched =
in a</div><div>demonstrated way. His deep familiarity with not only the var=
ious grammatical</div><div>systems but their nuance, their great qualities =
and their systemic inefficiencies</div>
<div>is really inspiring. As one of the most active jbopre, he continuously=
 emits</div><div>high-quality literary translations, and even music. He is =
an active Lojban</div><div>teacher with a number of current students that h=
e lectures and gives formal</div>
<div>training to. The guy can *rap* in Lojban :) I invite you to read his a=
ctive blog</div><div>which is where most of his published thinking on Lojba=
n resides:</div><div><a href=3D"http://selpahi.weebly.com/" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://selpahi.weebly.com/</a> *</div>
<div>and also many of his Lojban writings are available at:</div><div><a hr=
ef=3D"http://selpahi.de/" target=3D"_blank">http://selpahi.de/</a></div><di=
v><br></div><div>* NB: The blog posts are proposals only! I think they show=
 a depth of thinking</div>
<div>about the=A0language. But the intended work is completely community-dr=
iven and</div><div>no-one intends to implement proposals=A0without wide sup=
port.</div><div><br></div><div>Here is a current log of everyone who has gi=
ven a direct response to the motion</div>
<div>(which will be updated as the motion is on-going):</div><div><br></div=
><div><a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/durka/cdf733d1ec95333fb9e7" target=
=3D"_blank">https://gist.github.com/durka/cdf733d1ec95333fb9e7</a></div><di=
v>
<br></div><div>Here is log of the discussion that has taken place on facebo=
ok as of this</div><div>writing: <a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/dustinl=
acewell/115350f17f09efc9aa3f" target=3D"_blank">https://gist.github.com/dus=
tinlacewell/115350f17f09efc9aa3f</a></div>
<div><br></div><div>Please, use this thread to voice your approval or disap=
proval for this motion. If</div><div>you disapprove it is enough to say so =
and give a bit of reasoning behind why you</div><div>think so. Long digress=
ions will make it difficult to ascertain an accurate</div>
<div>distilling of everyone&#39;s approval or disapproval. Nays will be cou=
nted regardless</div><div>of their length! :)</div><div><br></div><div>Than=
k you for reading! If you&#39;d like to participate in a more real-time dis=
course,</div>
<div>I highly encourage you to visit #lojban on Freenode IRC. If you&#39;re=
</div><div>unfamiliar with that, you can use <a href=3D"http://webchat.free=
node.net/" target=3D"_blank">http://webchat.freenode.net/</a> to join.</div=
>
<div><br></div><div>.i finti fa la&#39;o gy Dustin Lacewell gy no&#39;u la&=
#39;o irci ldlework irci no&#39;u la mokau</div><div>.i cusku&#39;i fa la&#=
39;o gy Alex Burka gy no&#39;u la&#39;o irci durka42 irci</div><div>.i mu&#=
39;o</div>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div>
                </font></span></div><span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#=
888888">
                <div></div>
           =20

<p></p>

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et=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br>
</font></span></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o =
mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi=
.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father=
. :D )<br>

</div>

<p></p>

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