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Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 16:16:08 +0200
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Subject: Re: [lojban] the future of Lojban's leadership
From: Remo Dentato <rdentato@gmail.com>
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I'm ok with selpa'i taking a more formal role.


mu'o mi'e .remod.


On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 1:39 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>=
wrote:

>
> Excellent news! I wholeheartedly approve. .i'e ui
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:09 AM, Alex Burka <durka42@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>  coi lo jbopre
>>
>> My name is Dustin and you might know me as ldlework or mokau or cadgu'a.
>>  I'm
>> writing to announce the current motion to nominate selpa'i as the curren=
t
>> warden
>> for the language in a provisionally official capacity contingent on the
>> general
>> attitudes professed by the community's response to the motion. selpa'i
>> would be
>> replacing Robin Lee Powell in this position.
>>
>> Currently, the IRC and Facebook communities have been approached. The
>> response so
>> far has been extremely positive with a current count of 20 to 1 in favor
>> of the
>> motion. Broca of the BPFK has given his provisional support of the motio=
n
>> and Ali
>> Sajid Imami of the LLG has given positive approval.
>>
>> Robin Lee Powell has declared that he will abstain from voting
>> explicitly, citing
>> personal reasons but has offered the following words (edited for clarity=
):
>>
>> rlpowell:   I confirm [that] I'd [just] as soon someone else took my
>> Lojbanic authority.
>> rlpowell:   I'm ever so slightly mildly skeptical about selpa'i
>> specifically because
>>             he's not well known throughout the community the way I was.
>> rlpowell: I'm mildly worried that his lack of presence there will lead
>> to schism or something.
>> rlpowell: Having said that, I certainly don't know of anybody *better*
>> suited for the job.
>> rlpowell: and I, personally, like him and his attitude towards Lojban.
>>
>>
>> So what will this actually mean for the community and the language?
>>
>> As it stands Lojban is a vibrant community of speakers of a wide range o=
f
>> fluency.
>> At the tail end, some extremely active and hard-working jbopre have, ove=
r
>> the
>> years, contributed many efforts to the language such as translations,
>> music but
>> also proposals of enhancements or refinements of various aspects of the
>> language
>> including its grammar, cmavo and general lexicon. However without an
>> active
>> leadership many of these modifications remain in conversational limbo
>> where they
>> are discussed for years in vain since there is no explicit mechanism for
>> integration into the language or lexicon. New speakers get confused at t=
he
>> apparent lack of consensus.
>>
>> selpa'i would be the figurehead for the re-activation of this explicit
>> mechanism for
>> integration. If you are familiar with software development, this
>> responsibility is
>> synonymous with that of a repository maintainer. In that sense, he will
>> have the
>> authority to merge pull requests back into the repository thereby making
>> the change
>> "official". The authority to perform the "last-step" approval or
>> disapproval of any
>> of the number of outstanding or future proposals that may take place is
>> what allows
>> the language to continue to evolve and adapt to the creativity and usage
>> of its
>> userbase.
>>
>> I ask that everyone refrain from accusations of dictatorship and other
>> similarly
>> colored arguments. Lojban has always had an acting leadership for all of
>> the
>> utilities mentioned above. The motion should not in anyway be interprete=
d
>> that
>> selpa'i is solely responsible for engineering proposals and that all our
>> own
>> responsibilities to partake in the creative process have been revoked. O=
n
>> the
>> contrary, with an actually active leadership we hope that the motion wil=
l
>> encourage
>> those who tend to think very deeply about the nuance of Lojban's various
>> systems to
>> feel more confident that they have a venue through which their ideas may
>> actually
>> one day be realized.
>>
>> Furthermore, if selpa'i is indeed found to be an acceptable leader for
>> our lovely
>> language a major effort will be made to "open source" the language. We
>> have a PEG
>> grammar, reference material, and a lexicon all of which are data that ca=
n
>> be
>> managed with principles and procedures that more resemble the management
>> of a
>> software development. The intention is to make the entire process
>> extremely more
>> visible and open with actual mechanisms for structured review and
>> integration just
>> like in the software world. I hope it is readily apparent how this could
>> be an
>> incredible boon for the direct democracy that so many desire.
>>
>> Lastly, I will speak a bit about selpa'i himself. As I have known him, h=
e
>> has
>> demonstrated a prowess of the language that I have yet to see matched in=
 a
>> demonstrated way. His deep familiarity with not only the various
>> grammatical
>> systems but their nuance, their great qualities and their systemic
>> inefficiencies
>> is really inspiring. As one of the most active jbopre, he continuously
>> emits
>> high-quality literary translations, and even music. He is an active Lojb=
an
>> teacher with a number of current students that he lectures and gives
>> formal
>> training to. The guy can *rap* in Lojban :) I invite you to read his
>> active blog
>> which is where most of his published thinking on Lojban resides:
>> http://selpahi.weebly.com/ *
>> and also many of his Lojban writings are available at:
>> http://selpahi.de/
>>
>> * NB: The blog posts are proposals only! I think they show a depth of
>> thinking
>> about the language. But the intended work is completely community-driven
>> and
>> no-one intends to implement proposals without wide support.
>>
>> Here is a current log of everyone who has given a direct response to the
>> motion
>> (which will be updated as the motion is on-going):
>>
>> https://gist.github.com/durka/cdf733d1ec95333fb9e7
>>
>> Here is log of the discussion that has taken place on facebook as of thi=
s
>> writing: https://gist.github.com/dustinlacewell/115350f17f09efc9aa3f
>>
>> Please, use this thread to voice your approval or disapproval for this
>> motion. If
>> you disapprove it is enough to say so and give a bit of reasoning behind
>> why you
>> think so. Long digressions will make it difficult to ascertain an accura=
te
>> distilling of everyone's approval or disapproval. Nays will be counted
>> regardless
>> of their length! :)
>>
>> Thank you for reading! If you'd like to participate in a more real-time
>> discourse,
>> I highly encourage you to visit #lojban on Freenode IRC. If you're
>> unfamiliar with that, you can use http://webchat.freenode.net/ to join.
>>
>> .i finti fa la'o gy Dustin Lacewell gy no'u la'o irci ldlework irci no'u
>> la mokau
>> .i cusku'i fa la'o gy Alex Burka gy no'u la'o irci durka42 irci
>> .i mu'o
>>
>>   --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group=
s
>> "lojban" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a=
n
>> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I&#39;m ok with selpa&#39;i taking a more formal role=
.<br><br><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .remod.<br><br></div><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Thu, May 15, 2014 at=
 1:39 PM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jjlla=
mbias@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jjllambias@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrot=
e:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>Excelle=
nt news! I wholeheartedly approve. .i&#39;e ui<br></div><div><br></div><div=
>
mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div>
<div><br></div></div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote">
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:09 AM, Alex Burka <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:durka42@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">durka42@gmail.com</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8e=
x;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


                <div>
                    <div>coi lo jbopre</div><div><br></div><div>My name is =
Dustin and you might know me as ldlework or mokau or cadgu&#39;a. =C2=A0I&#=
39;m</div><div>writing to announce the current motion to nominate selpa&#39=
;i as the current warden</div>


<div>for the language in a provisionally official capacity contingent on th=
e general</div><div>attitudes professed by the community&#39;s response to =
the motion. selpa&#39;i would be</div><div>replacing Robin Lee Powell in th=
is position.</div>


<div><br></div><div>Currently, the IRC and Facebook communities have been a=
pproached. The response so</div><div>far has been extremely positive with a=
 current count of 20 to 1 in favor of the</div><div>motion. Broca of the BP=
FK has given his provisional support of the motion and Ali</div>


<div>Sajid Imami of the LLG has given positive approval.</div><div><br></di=
v><div>Robin Lee Powell has declared that he will abstain from voting expli=
citly, citing</div><div>personal reasons but has offered the following word=
s (edited for clarity):</div>


<div><br></div><div>rlpowell: =C2=A0 I confirm [that] I&#39;d [just] as soo=
n someone else took my Lojbanic authority.</div><div>rlpowell: =C2=A0 I&#39=
;m ever so slightly mildly skeptical about selpa&#39;i specifically because=
</div>


<div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 he&#39;s not well known thro=
ughout the community the way I was.</div><div>rlpowell:<span style=3D"white=
-space:pre-wrap">	</span>I&#39;m mildly worried that his lack of presence t=
here will lead to schism or something.</div>


<div>rlpowell:<span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">	</span>Having said that=
, I certainly don&#39;t know of anybody *better* suited for the job.</div><=
div>rlpowell:<span style=3D"white-space:pre-wrap">	</span>and I, personally=
, like him and his attitude towards Lojban.</div>


<div><br></div><div><br></div><div>So what will this actually mean for the =
community and the language?</div><div><br></div><div>As it stands Lojban is=
 a vibrant community of speakers of a wide range of fluency.</div><div>


At the tail end, some extremely active and hard-working jbopre have, over t=
he</div><div>years, contributed many efforts to the language such as transl=
ations, music but</div><div>also proposals of enhancements or refinements o=
f various aspects of the language</div>


<div>including its grammar, cmavo and general lexicon. However without an a=
ctive</div><div>leadership many of these modifications remain in conversati=
onal limbo where they</div><div>are discussed for years in vain since there=
 is no explicit mechanism for</div>


<div>integration into the language or lexicon. New speakers get confused at=
 the</div><div>apparent lack of consensus.</div><div><br></div><div>selpa&#=
39;i would be the figurehead for the re-activation of this explicit mechani=
sm for</div>


<div>integration. If you are familiar with software development, this respo=
nsibility is</div><div>synonymous with that of a repository maintainer. In =
that sense, he will have the</div><div>authority to merge pull requests bac=
k into the repository thereby making the change</div>


<div>&quot;official&quot;. The authority to perform the &quot;last-step&quo=
t; approval or disapproval of any</div><div>of the number of outstanding or=
 future proposals that may take place is what allows</div><div>the language=
 to continue to evolve and adapt to the creativity and usage of its</div>


<div>userbase.</div><div><br></div><div>I ask that everyone refrain from ac=
cusations of dictatorship and other similarly</div><div>colored arguments. =
Lojban has always had an acting leadership for all of the</div><div>utiliti=
es mentioned above. The motion should not in anyway be interpreted that</di=
v>


<div>selpa&#39;i is solely responsible for engineering proposals and that a=
ll our own</div><div>responsibilities to partake in the creative process ha=
ve been revoked. On the</div><div>contrary, with an actually active leaders=
hip we hope that the motion will encourage</div>


<div>those who tend to think very deeply about the nuance of Lojban&#39;s v=
arious systems to</div><div>feel more confident that they have a venue thro=
ugh which their ideas may actually</div><div>one day be realized.</div>


<div><br></div><div>Furthermore, if selpa&#39;i is indeed found to be an ac=
ceptable leader for our lovely</div><div>language a major effort will be ma=
de to &quot;open source&quot; the language. We have a PEG</div><div>grammar=
, reference material, and a lexicon all of which are data that can be</div>


<div>managed with principles and procedures that more resemble the manageme=
nt of a</div><div>software development. The intention is to make the entire=
 process extremely more</div><div>visible and open with actual mechanisms f=
or structured review and integration just</div>


<div>like in the software world. I hope it is readily apparent how this cou=
ld be an</div><div>incredible boon for the direct democracy that so many de=
sire.</div><div><br></div><div>Lastly, I will speak a bit about selpa&#39;i=
 himself. As I have known him, he has</div>


<div>demonstrated a prowess of the language that I have yet to see matched =
in a</div><div>demonstrated way. His deep familiarity with not only the var=
ious grammatical</div><div>systems but their nuance, their great qualities =
and their systemic inefficiencies</div>


<div>is really inspiring. As one of the most active jbopre, he continuously=
 emits</div><div>high-quality literary translations, and even music. He is =
an active Lojban</div><div>teacher with a number of current students that h=
e lectures and gives formal</div>


<div>training to. The guy can *rap* in Lojban :) I invite you to read his a=
ctive blog</div><div>which is where most of his published thinking on Lojba=
n resides:</div><div><a href=3D"http://selpahi.weebly.com/" target=3D"_blan=
k">http://selpahi.weebly.com/</a> *</div>


<div>and also many of his Lojban writings are available at:</div><div><a hr=
ef=3D"http://selpahi.de/" target=3D"_blank">http://selpahi.de/</a></div><di=
v><br></div><div>* NB: The blog posts are proposals only! I think they show=
 a depth of thinking</div>


<div>about the=C2=A0language. But the intended work is completely community=
-driven and</div><div>no-one intends to implement proposals=C2=A0without wi=
de support.</div><div><br></div><div>Here is a current log of everyone who =
has given a direct response to the motion</div>


<div>(which will be updated as the motion is on-going):</div><div><br></div=
><div><a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/durka/cdf733d1ec95333fb9e7" target=
=3D"_blank">https://gist.github.com/durka/cdf733d1ec95333fb9e7</a></div><di=
v>


<br></div><div>Here is log of the discussion that has taken place on facebo=
ok as of this</div><div>writing: <a href=3D"https://gist.github.com/dustinl=
acewell/115350f17f09efc9aa3f" target=3D"_blank">https://gist.github.com/dus=
tinlacewell/115350f17f09efc9aa3f</a></div>


<div><br></div><div>Please, use this thread to voice your approval or disap=
proval for this motion. If</div><div>you disapprove it is enough to say so =
and give a bit of reasoning behind why you</div><div>think so. Long digress=
ions will make it difficult to ascertain an accurate</div>


<div>distilling of everyone&#39;s approval or disapproval. Nays will be cou=
nted regardless</div><div>of their length! :)</div><div><br></div><div>Than=
k you for reading! If you&#39;d like to participate in a more real-time dis=
course,</div>


<div>I highly encourage you to visit #lojban on Freenode IRC. If you&#39;re=
</div><div>unfamiliar with that, you can use <a href=3D"http://webchat.free=
node.net/" target=3D"_blank">http://webchat.freenode.net/</a> to join.</div=
>


<div><br></div><div>.i finti fa la&#39;o gy Dustin Lacewell gy no&#39;u la&=
#39;o irci ldlework irci no&#39;u la mokau</div><div>.i cusku&#39;i fa la&#=
39;o gy Alex Burka gy no&#39;u la&#39;o irci durka42 irci</div><div>.i mu&#=
39;o</div>


<span><font color=3D"#888888"><div><br></div>
                </font></span></div><span><font color=3D"#888888">
                <div></div>
           =20

<p></p>

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