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Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 18:21:51 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] "bu letteral" and "zei lujvo"
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote=
:

> On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:58 AM, 'Wuzzy' via lojban <
> lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Of course, the question how to say this in Lojban came up.
>> Xorxes suggested =E2=80=9Cbu letteral=E2=80=9D to be lojbanized as =E2=
=80=9Czo bu zei lerfu=E2=80=9D.
>> This looks strange and unintitive to me. I am not even sure if this is
>> grammatical and if yes, under _which_ grammar? xD PEG? YACC? Something
>> else?
>>
> After the Magic Words reform, which to my understanding coincided with th=
e
> writing of the PEG, {zo WORD} is a single word for purposes of word
> counting.
>

Sort of.  It's a single word for those magic words that look back (so for
"bu", for the left side of "zei", for "si"), but it's not a single word for
magic words that look forward (you can't quote it with "zo", you can't use
it as the right side component of "zei". Magic words that look forward will
just see "zo" as a word, so "zo zo cmavo" is a full bridi, not a quote of
"zo cmavo".

"zo bu zei lerfu" works both for PEG and for YACC, with the caveat that
YACC uses a pre-parsing lexing process before the actual YACC kicks in.


> Word counting is relevant to {si}, {bu}, and {zei}, and I think nothing
> else, provided we exclude experimental cmavo. This means {zo si si} is th=
e
> empty string, {zo bu zei lerfu} is a valid lujvo, and {zo bu bu} is a val=
id
> lerfu.
>

Yes, "si", "bu" and "zei" need to know what counts as "previous word". but
"zo" and "zei" need to know what counts as "next word".

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 3:33 PM, Ian Johnson <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:blindbravado@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">blindbravado@gm=
ail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 11:58 AM=
, &#39;Wuzzy&#39; via lojban <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojban=
@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;</span>=
 wrote:<br>


<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Of course, the question how to say this in L=
ojban came up.<br>
Xorxes suggested =E2=80=9Cbu letteral=E2=80=9D to be lojbanized as =E2=80=
=9Czo bu zei lerfu=E2=80=9D.<br>
This looks strange and unintitive to me. I am not even sure if this is<br>
grammatical and if yes, under _which_ grammar? xD PEG? YACC? Something<br>
else?<br></blockquote></div><div>After the Magic Words reform, which to my =
understanding coincided with the writing of the PEG, {zo WORD} is a single =
word for purposes of word counting. </div></div></div></div></blockquote>
<div><br></div><div>Sort of. =C2=A0It&#39;s a single word for those magic w=
ords that look back (so for &quot;bu&quot;, for the left side of &quot;zei&=
quot;, for &quot;si&quot;), but it&#39;s not a single word for magic words =
that look forward (you can&#39;t quote it with &quot;zo&quot;, you can&#39;=
t use it as the right side component of &quot;zei&quot;. Magic words that l=
ook forward will just see &quot;zo&quot; as a word, so &quot;zo zo cmavo&qu=
ot; is a full bridi, not a quote of &quot;zo cmavo&quot;.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>&quot;zo bu zei lerfu&quot; works both for PEG and for =
YACC, with the caveat that YACC uses a pre-parsing lexing process before th=
e actual YACC kicks in.</div><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
>Word counting is relevant to {si}, {bu}, and {zei}, and I think nothing el=
se, provided we exclude experimental cmavo. This means {zo si si} is the em=
pty string, {zo bu zei lerfu} is a valid lujvo, and {zo bu bu} is a valid l=
erfu.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Yes, &quot;si&quot;, &qu=
ot;bu&quot; and &quot;zei&quot; need to know what counts as &quot;previous =
word&quot;. but &quot;zo&quot; and &quot;zei&quot; need to know what counts=
 as &quot;next word&quot;.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></di=
v></div>

<p></p>

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