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Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 18:47:51 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj1F0JS6yGoBm2sM-BzYS82+Stk9B46=_ggnSr4sZUUHsw@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban's leadership and how I don't give a shit
 about it
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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First of all, this seems like an entirely pointless endeavor for the simple
reason that, by mandate of the LLG, no change proposals are allowed until
the baseline as is has finished being fully documented. Obviously there
have been a very very few exceptions to this, most notably xorlo (,
actually that's the only one I can think of other than (possibly) dotside),
but I contend that any such changes are of a "bugfix" type of change. There
are some proposals I am aware of that I have no doubt would be approved,
such as changing to using PEG instead of YACC, .camxes. instead of jbofi'e,
etc., but of utmost importance to any proposal, past, present, and future,
is getting that baseline finished documented so the freeze is removed. With
that freeze in effect, it really doesn't matter /what/ the proposal process
is, or who the arbiter is.

Secondly, to the best of my knowledge, the current proposal process is to
create and submit a specification on the proposal to the BPFK, who would
then review it, assess how it would affect the corpus, affect any changes
deemed necessary, and then vote on it for approval, while Robin holds the
role of, basically, "Super Veto Man", in a very similar vein to the way
Congress and the President operate RE: the passing of laws in the U.S. It
sounds to me as if you're suggesting giving the role the BPFK plays in the
process to selpa'i, not the role Robin plays, which I don't approve of. If,
on the other hand, what you are suggesting is that selpa'i be the
intermediary between the proposer and the approval committee, then I see
nothing wrong with that. (And before anyone says anything about the BPFK
being dead, may I just point out again that the role of the BPFK is that of
maintaining the language- i.e., documenting the language as is as well as
approving and recording any changes to it. Since there can not be changes
with the freeze-until-baseline thing is over with, that kind of leaves the
BPFK with nothing to do. All I can say on the subject is, there's a
well-documented process for finishing the baseline, and anyone that wants
to can easily go about helping to finish it, and it is about 9x% finished
as of this writing, so it's not like there's a lot left to do.)

With all that said, I don't really have any problems with a competent
jbopre taking on more responsibilities in jbogu'e, whether it be selpa'i or
anyone else. Seeing as this is a mostly volunteer community (, I honestly
don't know if anyone gets paid for what they do for Lojban, but I'm not
going to assume no one does), it seems a bit counter-productive to deny
anyone who is volunteering.

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>First of all, this seems like an entirely pointless e=
ndeavor for the simple reason that, by mandate of the LLG, no change propos=
als are allowed until the baseline as is has finished being fully documente=
d. Obviously there have been a very very few exceptions to this, most notab=
ly xorlo (, actually that&#39;s the only one I can think of other than (pos=
sibly) dotside), but I contend that any such changes are of a &quot;bugfix&=
quot; type of change. There are some proposals I am aware of that I have no=
 doubt would be approved, such as changing to using PEG instead of YACC, .c=
amxes. instead of jbofi&#39;e, etc., but of utmost importance to any propos=
al, past, present, and future, is getting that baseline finished documented=
 so the freeze is removed. With that freeze in effect, it really doesn&#39;=
t matter /what/ the proposal process is, or who the arbiter is.<br>
<br></div>Secondly, to the best of my knowledge, the current proposal proce=
ss is to create and submit a specification on the proposal to the BPFK, who=
 would then review it, assess how it would affect the corpus, affect any ch=
anges deemed necessary, and then vote on it for approval, while Robin holds=
 the role of, basically, &quot;Super Veto Man&quot;, in a very similar vein=
 to the way Congress and the President operate RE: the passing of laws in t=
he U.S. It sounds to me as if you&#39;re suggesting giving the role the BPF=
K plays in the process to selpa&#39;i, not the role Robin plays, which I do=
n&#39;t approve of. If, on the other hand, what you are suggesting is that =
selpa&#39;i be the intermediary between the proposer and the approval commi=
ttee, then I see nothing wrong with that. (And before anyone says anything =
about the BPFK being dead, may I just point out again that the role of the =
BPFK is that of maintaining the language- i.e., documenting the language as=
 is as well as approving and recording any changes to it. Since there can n=
ot be changes with the freeze-until-baseline thing is over with, that kind =
of leaves the BPFK with nothing to do. All I can say on the subject is, the=
re&#39;s a well-documented process for finishing the baseline, and anyone t=
hat wants to can easily go about helping to finish it, and it is about 9x% =
finished as of this writing, so it&#39;s not like there&#39;s a lot left to=
 do.)<br clear=3D"all">
<div><div><div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_ext=
ra">With all that said, I don&#39;t really have any problems with a compete=
nt jbopre taking on more responsibilities in jbogu&#39;e, whether it be sel=
pa&#39;i or anyone else. Seeing as this is a mostly volunteer community (, =
I honestly don&#39;t know if anyone gets paid for what they do for Lojban, =
but I&#39;m not going to assume no one does), it seems a bit counter-produc=
tive to deny anyone who is volunteering.<br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><=
br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#=
39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
</div></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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