Received: from mail-yh0-f63.google.com ([209.85.213.63]:55733) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Wl6Mm-0002He-Iz for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:27 -0700 Received: by mail-yh0-f63.google.com with SMTP id z6sf1068445yhz.28 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Au0UW0UJ9mHmRug0nvE7zuPSEOf1xSXpZdNe+pRXpl4=; b=cQhbwhmUfKYA8AwQl5HiHD8dPmBW74HCvu3fpXXSzgXj1L1wAtSPFlIwAJEqfpWTOp tAmWCFoQT3fmNXz5YCRvLQS0WRil4reX+s4X5kHbEAftxL9KAU5H58WvM7JHSXis0hTm S/jS9Bj5PxK0/GV133V/MNCRApG6XwEKfHWfzUkoc4wCwLAj4OQEznGDP8D49pYlbqGO zerjTIx0HQgBrVGqvNw8/kRhLiaan/PJAIyj8h8fBTp/A2udjiFRyk+IJ1a1LmLP3Q5p 9YYIWA9nWFHQPGYN1ufGvf/UmF7kySTm3JYbcmzgtPKzJa4/MaHWaOAmca9JrTW2rSgH BUYQ== X-Received: by 10.140.38.199 with SMTP id t65mr73436qgt.17.1400201470469; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:10 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.98.229 with SMTP id o92ls488201qge.95.gmail; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.236.168.196 with SMTP id k44mr3423716yhl.55.1400201470178; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-x236.google.com (mail-ob0-x236.google.com [2607:f8b0:4003:c01::236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id jj2si15744igb.3.2014.05.15.17.51.10 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:4003:c01::236; Received: by mail-ob0-f182.google.com with SMTP id wn1so2209507obc.27 for ; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:09 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.60.44.100 with SMTP id d4mr3797431oem.6.1400201469643; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.118.167 with HTTP; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.118.167 with HTTP; Thu, 15 May 2014 17:51:09 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <25B055499F67420FA34794323F9A95AB@gmail.com> <20140515173852.477d9f55@aol.com> <20140516015036.1f762326@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 May 2014 20:51:09 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban's leadership and how I don't give a shit about it From: Craig Daniel To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: craigbdaniel@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:4003:c01::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=craigbdaniel@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2ee223653ff04f979cfbf X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --001a11c2ee223653ff04f979cfbf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 I'm an LLG member. If the notion of giving selpa'i an official leadership role of some kind comes up for a vote at our annual meeting, I will vote in favor. Until then, my support counts for very little; I'm not an active part of the language's user base these days. But to the extent that my support matters, it's there. On May 15, 2014 8:45 PM, "Dustin Lacewell" wrote: > (now *there's* an endorsement :) > > If selpa'i were awake I know that he would agree with one point and > disagree with the other. He's certainly of the opinion, that we have shared > together, that leadership comes from the communal support you refer to. > However, I think selpa'i would describe to you some of his experience in > trying to lead, before, in which he received some extremely loud backlash. > > Both of these things come together to form the motion we're now proposing. > While I could only reasonably interpret your message as incredibly > supportive; its also absolutely important that we do this thread. We're > doing this thread because we too are perceptive the support you mention. By > holding this motion explicitly in front of the community, we are asking all > those who do indeed support selpa'i to manifest that support here so that > the strong influence he has in the community today can be demonstrated and > give weight to the ensuing change in leadership. > > As for the commentary regarding the LLG; we're definitely aware of it and > the BPFK's missions, history and status. I'll just say that a few LLG > members and the chair of the BPFK have already given mixed support, both > fully and provisionally. > > > On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Craig Daniel wrote: > >> It really seems to me that official leadership positions are a question >> for the LLG membership and board. Unofficial leadership, which does come >> from the whole of the Lojban-speaking community, isn't something you vote >> on by saying aye or nay, but by letting the person lead and then following >> or not. Selpa'i leads, and we mostly do follow; in a sense, then, the true >> vote concluded long ago, and the community said yes. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/lojban/_juGorRhWtI/unsubscribe. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c2ee223653ff04f979cfbf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I'm an LLG member. If the notion of giving selpa'i a= n official leadership role of some kind comes up for a vote at our annual m= eeting, I will vote in favor.

Until then, my support counts for very little; I'm not a= n active part of the language's user base these days. But to the extent= that my support matters, it's there.

On May 15, 2014 8:45 PM, "Dustin Lacewell&q= uot; <dlacewell@gmail.com>= wrote:
(now there's=C2=A0an endorsement :)

If s= elpa'i were awake I know that he would agree with one point and disagre= e with the other. He's certainly of the opinion, that we have shared to= gether, that leadership comes from the communal support you refer to. Howev= er, I think selpa'i would describe to you some of his experience in try= ing to lead, before, in which he received some extremely loud backlash.
Both of these things come together to form the motion we'= ;re now proposing. While I could only reasonably interpret your message as = incredibly supportive; its also absolutely important that we do this thread= . We're doing this thread because we too are perceptive the support you= mention. By holding this motion explicitly in front of the community, we a= re asking all those who do indeed support selpa'i to manifest that supp= ort here so that the strong influence he has in the community today can be = demonstrated and give weight to the ensuing change in leadership.

As for the commentary regarding the LLG; we're definitely aware of = it and the BPFK's missions, history and status. I'll just say that = a few LLG members and the chair of the BPFK have already given mixed suppor= t, both fully and provisionally.


On Thu,= May 15, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Craig Daniel <craigbdaniel@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

It really seems to me that of= ficial leadership positions are a question for the LLG membership and board= . Unofficial leadership, which does come from the whole of the Lojban-speak= ing community, isn't something you vote on by saying aye or nay, but by= letting the person lead and then following or not. Selpa'i leads, and = we mostly do follow; in a sense, then, the true vote concluded long ago, an= d the community said yes.

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