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From: =?UTF-8?Q?Dan_Ros=C3=A9n?= <lurifax@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 May 2014 17:54:16 +0200
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Subject: [lojban] Place structures, linkargs and a bit of FA
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Place structures, linkargs and a bit of FA

Dear selmriste,

It seems like it is not fully agreed upon how to figure out
where sumti goes in all cases. Consider link-args. What is
the place structure of the selbri {dunda be lo plise}?
Some (including me, before I started digging into this),
seem to think that it is:

    "x1 gives an apple to x2"

(example reference:
http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=Advanced_Place_Structure_Mangling)

The CLL says: "These sumti are not part of the overall bridi place
structure,
but fill the places of the brivla they are attached to, starting with x2."
(http://dag.github.io/cll/5/7/), which could be interpreted as:

    "x1 gives an apple to x3"

Good old jbofi'e takes a middle ground. Consider the sentences
    1) {mi do dunda be lo plise}, and
    2) {mi fe do dunda be lo plise}.

In 1), it assigns {do} in dunda2, and {lo plise} in dunda3,
and in 2) it is the other way around.
(https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban-beginners/ho-XR6Vx2rg)

An older thread from 2002 is equally confused, where the example
sentence is {mi klama be fi le zdani le zarci}
(https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lojban/conversations/topics/18022)
Here xod (I think) claims that {le zarci} is in klama4: the {fi} inside
the linkargs affects the place structure of the outer bridi!

The BPFK section does not touch this issue.
(http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+Linkargs)

What does {be} do to a selbri?

ki'e mi'e .dan. mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Place structures, linkargs and a bit of FA<br><br>Dear sel=
mriste,<br><br>It seems like it is not fully agreed upon how to figure out =
<br>where sumti goes in all cases. Consider link-args. What is<br>the place=
 structure of the selbri {dunda be lo plise}? <br>

Some (including me, before I started digging into this), <br>seem to think =
that it is: <br><br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &quot;x1 gives an apple to x2&quot;<=
br><br>(example reference: <a href=3D"http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=
=3DAdvanced_Place_Structure_Mangling">http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=
=3DAdvanced_Place_Structure_Mangling</a>)<br>

<br>The CLL says: &quot;These sumti are not part of the overall bridi place=
 structure,<br>but fill the places of the brivla they are attached to, star=
ting with x2.&quot;<br>(<a href=3D"http://dag.github.io/cll/5/7/">http://da=
g.github.io/cll/5/7/</a>), which could be interpreted as:<br>

<br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 &quot;x1 gives an apple to x3&quot;<br><br>Good old =
jbofi&#39;e takes a middle ground. Consider the sentences <br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0 1) {mi do dunda be lo plise}, and <br>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2) {mi fe d=
o dunda be lo plise}. <br><br>In 1), it assigns {do} in dunda2, and {lo pli=
se} in dunda3,<br>

and in 2) it is the other way around.<br>(<a href=3D"https://groups.google.=
com/forum/#!topic/lojban-beginners/ho-XR6Vx2rg">https://groups.google.com/f=
orum/#!topic/lojban-beginners/ho-XR6Vx2rg</a>)<br><br>An older thread from =
2002 is equally confused, where the example<br>

sentence is {mi klama be fi le zdani le zarci} <br>(<a href=3D"https://grou=
ps.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lojban/conversations/topics/18022">https://groups.y=
ahoo.com/neo/groups/lojban/conversations/topics/18022</a>)<br>Here xod (I t=
hink) claims that {le zarci} is in klama4: the {fi} inside<br>

the linkargs affects the place structure of the outer bridi!<br><br>The BPF=
K section does not touch this issue.<br>(<a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/t=
iki/BPFK+Section:+Linkargs">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section:+Linkar=
gs</a>)<br>

<br>What does {be} do to a selbri?<br><br>ki&#39;e mi&#39;e .dan. mu&#39;o<=
br><br></div>

<p></p>

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