Received: from mail-pb0-f63.google.com ([209.85.160.63]:36077) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WmNFL-0005S0-KS for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 19 May 2014 06:05:00 -0700 Received: by mail-pb0-f63.google.com with SMTP id rr13sf1663937pbb.18 for ; Mon, 19 May 2014 06:04:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=JiiV6ixYgwHFKpQipGUn/pgESH/9gIq/7f+heCuHVGI=; b=lmO97MK/MTuOtmVByE3C0oYu8KR9R2kHa21ejmfOSWACyRZ6BikRHMg2g2cuAwZLNL t/+85oUgukZzK0PU/q4cjy0xeTqrB4wXZ/yRM1g449UdOHC1uyj78+xRhU0jdZTEwItL ku9oD/7SQkfisVAnyTFuzx4+p4qRaYuWAeK4DwzU++WYMed2bRRu9P3ZJUEV1opZzxOW olALQ3JWulCXNemMzCuWwzdqsiU03Vlg7xfWTBX5y+4ozV8dOElg7i4MwTq6qzH6pv62 wgJqKLt6XDEPgHdSofoWzXLcGxKIxxAgQ/HTsXw/0WIscMedyMLfLT9GM1XYQiJHaXQQ NkNQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=JiiV6ixYgwHFKpQipGUn/pgESH/9gIq/7f+heCuHVGI=; b=kjblh09OhxTpuB1qV/mwJHsHn+6DoQqIoD0kVoS1b1mri2JIpbDPNUNXCu1zeXJOQ+ 1f4Ys+6+P83PjbbmAV/Bvlkt1Kj+S/FtblZR0ifrPCgaGr5F9BiLUjv21y5IRd0f1tvq queDB/wTBP8mm8BcZKYP6GWjj9XuCnD37zvp0rkwY5MO2mtZMOXzqQGUoargMdw7FE+y 7wVQ66kfuczW5nqXAMxIfnFYQQ1f24g3G5o8ARYnt739Uiq2bwICjCvbOXROkMtqP9fH /wuTlZe+IjnJhEP2kvFZmU39MSuON4svvQTw788Pl3tFA1e9j+qPsNcTfY9Y/rTq0oWo 1DCA== X-Received: by 10.50.78.38 with SMTP id y6mr332753igw.8.1400504685680; Mon, 19 May 2014 06:04:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.4.1 with SMTP id g1ls393701igg.14.canary; Mon, 19 May 2014 06:04:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.92.34 with SMTP id cj2mr362064igb.4.1400504685166; Mon, 19 May 2014 06:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 19 May 2014 06:04:43 -0700 (PDT) From: guskant To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-Id: <570dae9f-cda3-42c4-a861-1c7974fe5bfd@googlegroups.com> In-Reply-To: <750f9b01-a747-4b12-80ba-e31b7e7bd20e@googlegroups.com> References: <52F26B9E.2090001@gmx.de> <5e023b9a-515c-432b-a389-8f9af4766b51@googlegroups.com> <52F29ED8.1050607@gmx.de> <372dd8f1-1920-4afa-8d11-aa55696982a0@googlegroups.com> <03555bbd-cc44-426f-94ee-65d557f2d301@googlegroups.com> <592497c0-5db5-420e-867f-8df1663eca27@googlegroups.com> <52F65A5C.90605@gmx.de> <348c23bf-6d9f-4a05-bfe7-69b141c03cb7@googlegroups.com> <52F776EE.6070406@gmx.de> <6ffd64d2-2e2c-4b83-8722-b7f262f5837a@googlegroups.com> <52F7A4D5.5070106@gmx.de> <56096dec-1969-420d-b4e5-b8539cbe0cc0@googlegroups.com> <52F8FAA2.9030009@gmx.de> <52FE053C.3000604@gmx.de> <1e6d5917-ad1e-4c5b-abb7-5deb92110b83@googlegroups.com> <68bacba4-a957-481c-ba00-211db2de8dc3@googlegroups.com> <2f4f0766-1f52-46f0-80af-b4de86d9b5bd@googlegroups.com> <618e6524-d7f0-46c9-8d0b-bbee2dd0cd41@googlegroups.com> <36c4c2b2-8f8c-4d44-ac8e-48c02d45a233@googlegroups.com> <4b6b2cb9-51e5-47f6-97a9-2dec16406864@googlegroups.com> <390f1b9f-6edd-42f2-8474-ad1f3610cca3@googlegroups.com> <750f9b01-a747-4b12-80ba-e31b7e7bd20e@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: [lojban] Individuals and xorlo MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: gusni.kantu@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_3431_21304432.1400504683698" X-Spam-Score: -0.1 (/) X-Spam_score: -0.1 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / ------=_Part_3431_21304432.1400504683698 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Le mardi 8 avril 2014 10:09:19 UTC+9, guskant a =C3=A9crit : > > > > Le mardi 8 avril 2014 02:24:11 UTC+9, la gleki a =C3=A9crit : >> >> The question to all involved in this this discussion. >> 1. Has the full resume been recorded anywhere? >> > > I made a page on lojban.org a month ago in Japanese: > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3Dgadri+%E3%81%AE%E8%AB%96= %E7%90%86%E5%AD%A6%E7%9A%84%E8%A6%B3%E7%82%B9%E3%81%8B%E3%82%89%E3%81%AE%E8= %A7%A3%E8%AA%AC&no_bl=3Dy > > I am translating it into English, though I have not yet done: > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3Dgadri%3A+an+unofficial+c= ommentary+from+a+logical+point+of+view&no_bl=3Dy > > I am very bad at English, and your help/correction on the translation wil= l=20 > be appreciated if you can read my Japanese text. > > =20 > >> 2. What is the definition of lu'o? Still loi=3Dlu'o ro lo?=20 >> > 3. What's the definition of {lu'a}? lu'a lo =3D lo me lo? >> >> > I did not discuss on {lu'o} and {lu'a} in the thread, but I will do in=20 > Section 3.3 of my commentary: > > http://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3Dgadri%3A+an+unofficial+c= ommentary+from+a+logical+point+of+view&no_bl=3Dy#Relation_between_lu_a_lu_o= _lu_i_and_gadri > > {loi} =3D {lo gunma be lo} , the same as BPFK's definition. > As for {lu'a}, BPFK's definition is too weak for expressing an individual= =20 > or individuals. I gave an unofficial definition of {lu'a} as follows: > > {lu'a sumti} =3Dca'e {lo cmima be sumti noi selcmi ku onai lo se gunma be= =20 > sumti noi gunma ku onai lo me sumti ku > vu'o noi su'o da zo'u da me ke'a gi'e no'a} > > The detailed discussion will be translated soon on that page. > > >> I have finished English translation of my commentary on gadri from a=20 logical point of view: http://www.lojban.org/tiki/gadri%3A+an+unofficial+commentary+from+a+logical= +point+of+view&no_bl=3Dy Any comments or questions will be appreciated. Maybe I had better add a section for {jo'u}, {joi}, {ce}?=20 As I often say, my English is very bad, and always needs correction by you= =20 all. Here is the table of contents for your brief info: 1. Glossary 2. Plural quantification 2.1. Collectivity and distributivity 2.2. Plural constant and plural variable 2.2.1. me and jo'u 2.2.2. Individual 2.2.3. Difference between plural and singular 2.2.4. Bound singular variable 2.2.5. What is neither an individual nor individuals 2.2.6. A logical axiom on plural constant 3. Definition of gadri 3.1. Inner quantification 3.1.1. Repeating inner quantification 3.1.2. Problems on inner quantification 3.1.2.1. Cannot say zero 3.1.2.2. Cannot quantify material noun or something 3.2. Outer quantification 3.2.1. Combination of outer and inner quantifications 3.3. Relation between lu'a, lu'o, lu'i and gadri 4. Notes 4.1. About ontology 4.2. claxu x2 4.3. zo'e is a plural constant 4.3.1. If zo'e could be a bound plural variable 4.3.1.1. Merits 4.3.1.2. Demerits 4.3.2. Problems caused by the fact that zo'e is a plural constant and the= =20 counter-measures 4.3.2.1. Cannot express plural quantification of non-existence 4.3.2.2. Cannot express bound plural variable, which does not specify a=20 referent 4.3.2.3. Cannot express elementary particles with lo 4.3.2.4. How to interpret a prevailing view 4.3.2.5. How to express free variables --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ------=_Part_3431_21304432.1400504683698 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


Le mardi 8 avril 2014 10:09:19 UTC+9, guskant a = =C3=A9crit :


Le mardi 8 avril 2014 02:24:11 UTC+9, la gleki a =C3=A9crit&nbs= p;:
The question to= all involved in this this discussion.
1. Has the full resume been reco= rded anywhere?

I made a page on= lojban= .org a month ago in Japanese:

I am translating it into English, though I have not yet done:<= /div>
ht= tp://www.lojban.org/tiki/tiki-index.php?page=3Dgadri%3A+an+unoffi= cial+commentary+from+a+logical+point+of+view&no_bl=3Dy

I am very bad at English, and your help/correction o= n the translation will be appreciated if you can read my Japanese text= .

 
2. What is the definition of lu'o? Still loi=3Dlu= 'o ro lo? 
3. What's the definition of {lu'a}? lu'a lo =3D = lo me lo?


I did not discuss on = {lu'o} and {lu'a} in the thread, but I will do in Section 3.= 3 of my commentary:

{= loi} =3D {lo gunma be lo} , the same as BPFK's definition.
<= div>As for {lu'a}, BPFK's definition is too weak for expressing an individu= al or individuals. I gave an unofficial definition of {lu'a} as follows:

{lu'a sumti} =3Dca'e {lo cmima be sumti noi sel= cmi ku onai lo se gunma be sumti noi gunma ku onai lo me sumti ku
                    &nbs= p;      vu'o noi su'o da zo'u da me ke'a gi'e no'a}

The detailed discussion will be translated soon on t= hat page.

=

I have finish= ed English translation of my commentary on gadri from a logical point = of view:
http://www.lojban.org/tiki/gadri%3A+an+unofficial+commen= tary+from+a+logical+point+of+view&no_bl=3Dy

Any comments or questions will be appreciated.
Maybe I had bett= er add a section for {jo'u}, {joi}, {ce}? 
As I often say, m= y English is very bad, and always needs correction by you all.
Here is the table of contents for your brief info:
<= div>1. Glossary
2. Plural quantification
2.1. Collectiv= ity and distributivity
2.2. Plural constant and plural variable
2.2.1. me and jo'u
2.2.2. Individual
2.2.3. Di= fference between plural and singular
2.2.4. Bound singular variab= le
2.2.5. What is neither an individual nor individuals
2.2.6. A logical axiom on plural constant
3. Definition of gadri=
3.1. Inner quantification
3.1.1. Repeating inner quant= ification
3.1.2. Problems on inner quantification
3.1.2= .1. Cannot say zero
3.1.2.2. Cannot quantify material noun or som= ething
3.2. Outer quantification
3.2.1. Combination of = outer and inner quantifications
3.3. Relation between lu'a, lu'o,= lu'i and gadri
4. Notes
4.1. About ontology
= 4.2. claxu x2
4.3. zo'e is a plural constant
4.3.1. If = zo'e could be a bound plural variable
4.3.1.1. Merits
4= .3.1.2. Demerits
4.3.2. Problems caused by the fact that zo'e is = a plural constant and the counter-measures
4.3.2.1. Cannot expres= s plural quantification of non-existence
4.3.2.2. Cannot express = bound plural variable, which does not specify a referent
4.3.2.3.= Cannot express elementary particles with lo
4.3.2.4. How to inte= rpret a prevailing view
4.3.2.5. How to express free variables


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