Date: Thu, 22 May 2014 13:50:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dustin Lacewell <dlacewell@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Message-Id: <b3d39fc1-7bcf-42c7-accf-5bf992ff183d@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Balningau: The Great Update
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This message is an announcement and an invitation.

An effort will begin shortly by a number of jbopre, for which this 
announcement
speaks, that pertains to the systematic review and, where deemed necessary,
revision of the entire gimste.

We expect a lot of varied responses to this effort.

The response we expect to receive the loudest is the one that denies the 
very
legitimacy of the endeavor. We have considered how to approach the community
regarding this agenda and the conclusion was to formally approach the
mailing-list, Facebook and IRC communities regarding the status-quo 
regarding
the policies related to lojban's maintenance.

You can view the result of this approach in this thread:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban/_juGorRhWtI

We implore you to carefully review the progression of discourse and 
consider for
yourself what may be concluded from the positions put forth there. The 
outcome
is not much different than what we expected when we submitted the original
message, at least in terms of pushback. The amount of explicit support and
advocacy was incredibly encouraging and reaffirming.

The conclusion, as far as we are concerned, can essentially be 
characterized as
a mix between a simplistic resolve that "somebody 'just' needs to pick up 
where
we left off!" and long historical digressions about why things are 
gridlocked in
the first place. The suggestions provided for removing that gridlock have 
been,
to be clear, deemed unreasonable and not worth their weight in practical 
value.

Consider the character in proposing that those with the will to work on the 
language
first carry out the lengthy agendas gone unfinished for more than 10 years,
including puzzling suggestions to do things like finish a CLL reflective of
decade old Lojban, only to subsequently replace it with a modern one.

Be certain that we have *heard* these outlines for how we should be 
spending our
efforts, considered them, and decided we have no intention of carrying out 
such
tautological efforts as prerequisites to our own. To speak plainly, we 
simply
are not interested. We have far more practical things to do that are 
directly
related to dealing with making the lojbanic prescription more immediately
reflective of modern lojban for the benefit of its current speakers and the
sensibilities of those finding the language for the first time, every day.

ta'onai

The first of those efforts is the aforementioned revision of the gimste. 
We, and
those who decide to participate, will be systematically visiting each gismu 
in
the gimste and applying modern sensibilities and usage to their place
structures. This includes changing the order, removing or adding places as 
it is
deemed valuable and sensible to do so. We intend to use the software model 
for
this process, specifically for the use of change proposals, review, and
potential integrational merging of individual changes back into the gimste.

The current repository where this work will take place can be found here:

https://github.com/balningau/gimste

We are currently working to organize this repository with the data of the 
gimste
so that work can begin. We will be authoring a number of documents 
outlining the
procedure and process for this effort explicitly so that it can be 
referenced
later. We will also include good information about how to interact with 
github's
interface to participate in the effort, using easy to understand language 
and
pictures outlining the steps to perform things like, submitting your own 
change
proposal, and commenting on the proposal's of others.

If you think you too would like to participate directly in this process we
HIGHLY encourage you to come visit us in the #balningau channel on Freenode 
IRC.
There is still some time before we actually begin as the aforementioned
documentation needs to be authored and we need to further discuss the 
process
and ordering of that process before anything happens. However, we are 
getting
fairly close to feeling ready to begin so please come and join us in direct
discourse.

We expect this thread will devolve into the philosophy about the mere
integrity or legitimacy of the effort or specific revisions to the gismu 
that
this person or that person agrees or disagrees with. As for the former, 
we'll be
listening to that discussion but no longer feel strongly compelled by it. 
As for
the latter, we again highly encourage you to come to #balningau where such
specific discussions are happening all the time. Furthermore, when we move 
to
begin having those conversations in a more formal context on github, 
utilizing
the issue system, you will be more contextualized when that happens.

Thanks for reading this far.
Regards,
Dustin

-- 
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>This message is an announcement and an invitation.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>An effort will begin shortly by a number of jbopre, =
for which this announcement</div><div>speaks, that pertains to the systemat=
ic review and, where deemed necessary,</div><div>revision of the entire gim=
ste.</div><div><br></div><div>We expect a lot of varied responses to this e=
ffort.</div><div><br></div><div>The response we expect to receive the loude=
st is the one that denies the very</div><div>legitimacy of the endeavor. We=
 have considered how to approach the community</div><div>regarding this age=
nda and the conclusion was to formally approach the</div><div>mailing-list,=
 Facebook and IRC communities regarding the status-quo regarding</div><div>=
the policies related to lojban's maintenance.</div><div><br></div><div>You =
can view the result of this approach in this thread:</div><div><br></div><d=
iv>https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban/_juGorRhWtI</div><div><br=
></div><div>We implore you to carefully review the progression of discourse=
 and consider for</div><div>yourself what may be concluded from the positio=
ns put forth there. The outcome</div><div>is not much different than what w=
e expected when we submitted the original</div><div>message, at least in te=
rms of pushback. The amount of explicit support and</div><div>advocacy was =
incredibly encouraging and reaffirming.</div><div><br></div><div>The conclu=
sion, as far as we are concerned, can essentially be characterized as</div>=
<div>a mix between a simplistic resolve that "somebody 'just' needs to pick=
 up where</div><div>we left off!" and long historical digressions about why=
 things are gridlocked in</div><div>the first place. The suggestions provid=
ed for removing that gridlock have been,</div><div>to be clear, deemed unre=
asonable and not worth their weight in practical value.</div><div><br></div=
><div>Consider the character in proposing that those with the will to work =
on the language</div><div>first carry out the lengthy agendas gone unfinish=
ed for more than 10 years,</div><div>including puzzling suggestions to do t=
hings like finish a CLL reflective of</div><div>decade old Lojban, only to =
subsequently replace it with a modern one.</div><div><br></div><div>Be cert=
ain that we have *heard* these outlines for how we should be spending our</=
div><div>efforts, considered them, and decided we have no intention of carr=
ying out such</div><div>tautological efforts as prerequisites to our own. T=
o speak plainly, we simply</div><div>are not interested. We have far more p=
ractical things to do that are directly</div><div>related to dealing with m=
aking the lojbanic prescription more immediately</div><div>reflective of mo=
dern lojban for the benefit of its current speakers and the</div><div>sensi=
bilities of those finding the language for the first time, every day.</div>=
<div><br></div><div>ta'onai</div><div><br></div><div>The first of those eff=
orts is the aforementioned revision of the gimste. We, and</div><div>those =
who decide to participate, will be systematically visiting each gismu in</d=
iv><div>the gimste and applying modern sensibilities and usage to their pla=
ce</div><div>structures. This includes changing the order, removing or addi=
ng places as it is</div><div>deemed valuable and sensible to do so. We inte=
nd to use the software model for</div><div>this process, specifically for t=
he use of change proposals, review, and</div><div>potential integrational m=
erging of individual changes back into the gimste.</div><div><br></div><div=
>The current repository where this work will take place can be found here:<=
/div><div><br></div><div>https://github.com/balningau/gimste</div><div><br>=
</div><div>We are currently working to organize this repository with the da=
ta of the gimste</div><div>so that work can begin. We will be authoring a n=
umber of documents outlining the</div><div>procedure and process for this e=
ffort explicitly so that it can be referenced</div><div>later. We will also=
 include good information about how to interact with github's</div><div>int=
erface to participate in the effort, using easy to understand language and<=
/div><div>pictures outlining the steps to perform things like, submitting y=
our own change</div><div>proposal, and commenting on the proposal's of othe=
rs.</div><div><br></div><div>If you think you too would like to participate=
 directly in this process we</div><div>HIGHLY encourage you to come visit u=
s in the #balningau channel on Freenode IRC.</div><div>There is still some =
time before we actually begin as the aforementioned</div><div>documentation=
 needs to be authored and we need to further discuss the process</div><div>=
and ordering of that process before anything happens. However, we are getti=
ng</div><div>fairly close to feeling ready to begin so please come and join=
 us in direct</div><div>discourse.</div><div><br></div><div>We expect this =
thread will devolve into the philosophy about the mere</div><div>integrity =
or legitimacy of the effort or specific revisions to the gismu that</div><d=
iv>this person or that person agrees or disagrees with. As for the former, =
we'll be</div><div>listening to that discussion but no longer feel strongly=
 compelled by it. As for</div><div>the latter, we again highly encourage yo=
u to come to #balningau where such</div><div>specific discussions are happe=
ning all the time. Furthermore, when we move to</div><div>begin having thos=
e conversations in a more formal context on github, utilizing</div><div>the=
 issue system, you will be more contextualized when that happens.</div><div=
><br></div><div>Thanks for reading this far.</div><div>Regards,</div><div>D=
ustin</div><div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e=
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