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Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 12:16:06 +0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Balningau: The Great Update
From: Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
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2014-05-24 6:51 GMT+04:00 Robert LeChevalier <lojbab@lojban.org>:

> On 5/22/2014 4:50 PM, Dustin Lacewell wrote:
>
>> You can view the result of this approach in this thread:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban/_juGorRhWtI
>>
>> We implore you to carefully review the progression of discourse and
>> consider for
>> yourself what may be concluded from the positions put forth there. The
>> outcome
>> is not much different than what we expected when we submitted the original
>> message, at least in terms of pushback. The amount of explicit support and
>> advocacy was incredibly encouraging and reaffirming.
>>
>
> You seem to have rather low standard for "encouraging and reaffirming".
>
> The Lojban community numbers in the several hundreds if not thousands.
>
> Maybe 1000 copies of CLL have been sold.  People who bought it expect that
> the language will not lightly be changed under them.
>
> You and your few others (relative to that 1000) of course do not respect
> that, which is your choice.
>

This certainly shows disrespect for CLL. But what's really interesting is
how did xorlo proposals pass then? Was it a lost battle to you?

xorlo invalidates large portions of CLL thus suggesting that those 1000
copies of CLL are to be burned.

Do you have a solution to this problem? Because I feel that xorlo was de
facto a mistake (at least partially).

Shall we adapt xorlo to what is described in CLL?


> My position requires me to oppose yours, and to consider your efforts
> schismatic.
>

They would certainly be schismatic if they invalidate many things described
in CLL.

However, for now we don't know what they are suggesting since their work
hasn't even started.

I revised gimste myself injecting gua\spi style specifications of sumti
interactions and found very few problems in gimste. So I can't even imagine
what they are suggesting. Probably they don't know themselves.

Anyway, how can it be schismatic if the only reliable source for a
dictionary are definitions that we can learn from CLL?
Is there another official source apart from CLL? If yes then why wasn't it
printed?


> -----
>
> For the other query in this thread:  perhaps LLG is unnecessary as an
> organization, but if Lojban is ever to become something other than a
> word-of-mouth hobby, it needs an business organization in any relevant
> political entity capable of dealing with laws, and finance, and business
> matters.  LLG is a nonprofit that can accept financial contributions (in
> the USA) that are tax-deductible.  That is why we had the money to publish
> CLL in the first place.  And why we can eventually hope to publish a
> dictionary and other books, and sell them internationally.
>
> Esperanto and all other significant language projects have one or more
> organizations in several countries.
>
> Of course maybe you and your friends are happy with Internet-only
> materials.  I'm an old fossil by your standards.  And perhaps when I no
> longer have the capability of participating, others will decide to fold LLG.
>
>
> lojbab
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> --
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>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><div class=3D"gmail=
_quote">2014-05-24 6:51 GMT+04:00 Robert LeChevalier <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:lojbab@lojban.org" target=3D"_blank">lojbab@lojban.org</a=
>&gt;</span>:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"">On 5/22/2014 4:50 PM, Dustin=
 Lacewell wrote:<br>
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div class=3D"">
You can view the result of this approach in this thread:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/lojban/_juGorRhWtI" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://groups.google.com/<u></u>forum/#!topic/lojban/_<u></u=
>juGorRhWtI</a><br>
<br></div><div class=3D"">
We implore you to carefully review the progression of discourse and<br>
consider for<br>
yourself what may be concluded from the positions put forth there. The<br>
outcome<br>
is not much different than what we expected when we submitted the original<=
br>
message, at least in terms of pushback. The amount of explicit support and<=
br>
advocacy was incredibly encouraging and reaffirming.<br>
</div></blockquote>
<br>
You seem to have rather low standard for &quot;encouraging and reaffirming&=
quot;.<br>
<br>
The Lojban community numbers in the several hundreds if not thousands.<br>
<br>
Maybe 1000 copies of CLL have been sold. =C2=A0People who bought it expect =
that the language will not lightly be changed under them.<br>
<br>
You and your few others (relative to that 1000) of course do not respect th=
at, which is your choice.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>This certainl=
y shows disrespect for CLL. But what&#39;s really interesting is how did xo=
rlo proposals pass then? Was it a lost battle to you?</div>
<div><br></div><div>xorlo invalidates large portions of CLL thus suggesting=
 that those 1000 copies of CLL are to be burned.</div><div><br></div><div>D=
o you have a solution to this problem? Because I feel that xorlo was de fac=
to a mistake (at least partially).</div>
<div><br></div><div>Shall we adapt xorlo to what is described in CLL?</div>=
<div>=C2=A0<br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
My position requires me to oppose yours, and to consider your efforts schis=
matic.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>They would certainly be schismat=
ic if they invalidate many things described in CLL.</div><div><br></div>
<div>However, for now we don&#39;t know what they are suggesting since thei=
r work hasn&#39;t even started.</div><div><br></div><div>I revised gimste m=
yself injecting gua\spi style specifications of sumti interactions and foun=
d very few problems in gimste. So I can&#39;t even imagine what they are su=
ggesting. Probably they don&#39;t know themselves.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Anyway, how can it be schismatic if the only reliable s=
ource for a dictionary are definitions that we can learn from CLL?</div><di=
v>Is there another official source apart from CLL? If yes then why wasn&#39=
;t it printed?</div>
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex=
;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
-----<br>
<br>
For the other query in this thread: =C2=A0perhaps LLG is unnecessary as an =
organization, but if Lojban is ever to become something other than a word-o=
f-mouth hobby, it needs an business organization in any relevant political =
entity capable of dealing with laws, and finance, and business matters. =C2=
=A0LLG is a nonprofit that can accept financial contributions (in the USA) =
that are tax-deductible. =C2=A0That is why we had the money to publish CLL =
in the first place. =C2=A0And why we can eventually hope to publish a dicti=
onary and other books, and sell them internationally.<br>

<br>
Esperanto and all other significant language projects have one or more orga=
nizations in several countries.<br>
<br>
Of course maybe you and your friends are happy with Internet-only materials=
. =C2=A0I&#39;m an old fossil by your standards. =C2=A0And perhaps when I n=
o longer have the capability of participating, others will decide to fold L=
LG.<div class=3D"HOEnZb">
<div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
lojbab<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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