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Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 09:05:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "'John E Clifford' via lojban" <lojban@googlegroups.com>
Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [lojban] Balningau: The Great Update
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Dang it, Bob, you just undid your bit of good! =A0You have again saddled BP=
FK with the paradoxical task of now documenting a language that ceased to e=
xist in 1997 (if even then). =A0You had said its task was to work out how t=
he presumably inadequate descriptions had been filled out, a reasonable tas=
k. =A0But that would not be a description of CLL Lojban =A0but of what that=
 has become. =A0I suppose that a compromise approach would be to find out f=
or each piece when it was possible to give an adequate account and to give =
that account and close that piece, ignoring what came after (except, perhap=
s, to note if a more complete account became available and then use that). =
=A0Or (ultimately a more useful thing) to trace all the developments, take =
the first adequate one as the baseline and the rest as the first proposals =
for revision. =A0In no case would this be, except accidentally, CLL Lojban =
(nor, if BPFK has any job to do, would one expect it to be). =A0
The sensible approach (and what I think was actually intended -- certainly =
after it became clear that the baselining was not going to be done in a sho=
rt time) is to close a corpus (we do have a good searchable corpus somewher=
e, don't we) at some date certain (tomorrow, say or June 1, 2014 anyhow) an=
d describe that language synchronically and diachronically, then take the s=
ynchronic as a baseline with notes on how it evolved from CLL based on the =
diachronic data. =A0This is a nice simple field linguist job, made consider=
ably easier by all the tools in CLL and since. =A0All it needs is warm bodi=
es with computers, since very little serious thought is required.


On Friday, May 23, 2014 9:33 PM, "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - =
LLG" <lojbab@lojban.org> wrote:
=20


On 5/22/2014 6:26 PM, v4hn wrote:
> I see why you consider irregular gismu "more practical" than completing t=
he byfy.
> Yet, I politely disagree when you say that finishing
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Contact+Spatial
> and
> http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Termsets
> is not practical at all and tries to define a 10-year old language.

Let me correct this.=A0 The purpose of the BPFK is to document the 17 year=
=20
old language (i.e that of 1997 when CLL was written) as a basis for=20
MODIFYING That baseline to reflect the current language.

lojbab

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--=20
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<html><body><div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:He=
lveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;fo=
nt-size:12pt"><div><span>Dang it, Bob, you just undid your bit of good! &nb=
sp;You have again saddled BPFK with the paradoxical task of now documenting=
 a language that ceased to exist in 1997 (if even then). &nbsp;You had said=
 its task was to work out how the presumably inadequate descriptions had be=
en filled out, a reasonable task. &nbsp;But that would not be a description=
 of CLL Lojban &nbsp;but of what that has become. &nbsp;I suppose that a co=
mpromise approach would be to find out for each piece when it was possible =
to give an adequate account and to give that account and close that piece, =
ignoring what came after (except, perhaps, to note if a more complete accou=
nt became available and then use that). &nbsp;Or (ultimately a more useful =
thing) to trace all the developments, take the first adequate one as
 the baseline and the rest as the first proposals for revision. &nbsp;In no=
 case would this be, except accidentally, CLL Lojban (nor, if BPFK has any =
job to do, would one expect it to be). &nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"col=
or: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 16px; font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica N=
eue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; background-color: tran=
sparent; font-style: normal;"><span>The sensible approach (and what I think=
 was actually intended -- certainly after it became clear that the baselini=
ng was not going to be done in a short time) is to close a corpus (we do ha=
ve a good searchable corpus somewhere, don't we) at some date certain (tomo=
rrow, say or June 1, 2014 anyhow) and describe that language synchronically=
 and diachronically, then take the synchronic as a baseline with notes on h=
ow it evolved from CLL based on the diachronic data. &nbsp;This is a nice s=
imple field linguist job, made considerably easier by all the tools in
 CLL and since. &nbsp;All it needs is warm bodies with computers, since ver=
y little serious thought is required.<br><br></span></div> <div class=3D"qt=
dSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class=3D"yahoo_quoted" style=3D"display: bl=
ock;"> <div style=3D"font-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetic=
a, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div style=3D"fon=
t-family: HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande=
', sans-serif; font-size: 12pt;"> <div dir=3D"ltr"> <font size=3D"2" face=
=3D"Arial"> On Friday, May 23, 2014 9:33 PM, "Bob LeChevalier, President an=
d Founder - LLG" &lt;lojbab@lojban.org&gt; wrote:<br> </font> </div>  <br><=
br> <div class=3D"y_msg_container">On 5/22/2014 6:26 PM, v4hn wrote:<br>&gt=
; I see why you consider irregular gismu "more practical" than completing t=
he byfy.<br>&gt; Yet, I politely disagree when you say that finishing<br>&g=
t; <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Contact+Spatial"
 target=3D"_blank">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3A+Contact+Spati=
al</a><br>&gt; and<br>&gt; <a href=3D"http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Secti=
on%3A+Termsets" target=3D"_blank">http://www.lojban.org/tiki/BPFK+Section%3=
A+Termsets</a><br>&gt; is not practical at all and tries to define a 10-yea=
r old language.<br><br>Let me correct this.&nbsp; The purpose of the BPFK i=
s to document the 17 year <br>old language (i.e that of 1997 when CLL was w=
ritten) as a basis for <br>MODIFYING That baseline to reflect the current l=
anguage.<br><br>lojbab<br><br>-- <br>You received this message because you =
are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>To unsubscribe from =
this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+<a ym=
ailto=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@googlegroups.com." href=3D"mailto:unsubscribe@g=
ooglegroups.com.">unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.</a><br>To post to this grou=
p, send email to <a ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com."
 href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com.">lojban@googlegroups.com.</a><br>V=
isit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.<br>For more optio=
ns, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.<br><br><br></div>  </div> </d=
iv>  </div> </div></body></html>

<p></p>

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