Received: from mail-we0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]:35763) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WoEvQ-0003JO-3T for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 24 May 2014 09:36:06 -0700 Received: by mail-we0-f189.google.com with SMTP id w62sf596196wes.16 for ; Sat, 24 May 2014 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=CETjBqsWpquVyzFAHtdg5uGo9OmQXnr/EWrO/bPdlxM=; b=UJ1SM69auJNFBOShywxey69gOuaY9Co939ek6oG6fWWFm5OJgOfTfRatjckNJz70bN MmAP75S1XvTtZbgF4YFDrttkFc8TMjqrziZLZpnragRhlwigcSCZ5ylhQJbh27/y7XG/ rYh3b6Cl/wjwHCx7tF2OFQt4QuYEsL65eZrnMKhM/42CmuWKNILYAD8+DbvTrisNeJ7i 7SYy6cjPpy8D0ATueDXOhwjMZKne7UQ2ezS5cNX4M7cY+ywdJ0VpmpWhPjR4IEPif0Og vBrzOAvglp8F1vBYuwLdlhoPKwK7V9PlPqJLNAWJOP1sjNbSeys9VCI4NXvMdbCE/tlr rzBQ== X-Received: by 10.180.101.7 with SMTP id fc7mr3549wib.4.1400949353217; Sat, 24 May 2014 09:35:53 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.181.12.72 with SMTP id eo8ls220594wid.23.gmail; Sat, 24 May 2014 09:35:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.82.98 with SMTP id h2mr951682wiy.0.1400949352401; Sat, 24 May 2014 09:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22d.google.com (mail-wg0-x22d.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22d]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id xk11si235393wib.0.2014.05.24.09.35.52 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 24 May 2014 09:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22d; Received: by mail-wg0-f45.google.com with SMTP id m15so6003248wgh.4 for ; Sat, 24 May 2014 09:35:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.108.106 with SMTP id hj10mr7341183wib.53.1400949352250; Sat, 24 May 2014 09:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Sat, 24 May 2014 09:35:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 20:35:52 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f3bb03d7d45d004fa27f058 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --e89a8f3bb03d7d45d004fa27f058 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-05-24 18:31 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 2:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Another revision of gimste done by me is complete. >> >> I based it on excellent simple definitions of gismu made by la .aionys. >> (.io) but changed them here and there. >> The most important difference is that I specified possible sumti types >> for each place. >> E.g. >> (event) - an event place. {nu} or any other place like nicte1 that has >> {nu} inside is possible for this place. >> (assertion) - du'u >> (property) - ka with ce'u referring to x1 of the current gismu >> (property of x2) - ka with ce'u referring to x2 of the current gismu >> One of the rare sumti types is e.g. (ordered set) that requires using >> {ce'o}. >> >> Places with just x1, x2... without a sumti type specified imply "object" >> sumti type (e.g. mlatu1) >> >> > Do you have a full list of the types you used? > I tried to put all registered sumti types and subtypes into one table. However, I can miss some of them. http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3DLa_Bangu:_dictionary When you flag a place with a type, do you mean that no other type is > allowed in that place > No other place is allowed. If you disagree for a given places of a given brivla please bug me. Such restriction will allow users to manage the dictionary better and avoid sumti raisings and metonymy. , or just that at least the mentioned type is allowed? > > > The gismu that changed their place structure are: >> zabna, mabla, traji, satci, konju >> > > There are many gismu with place structure "x1 is a ... (some shape) of > material x2". If you remove the material place from "konju", wouldn't it > also make sense to remove it from bolci, slanu, clupa, djine, bliku, tapl= a, > tubnu, grana, bidju, dirgo, and many others? Why "konju" specifically? > To remove those material places we'd need to assume that {slanu} can be only a material object. Therefore, a cylinder drawn in AutoCAD would require a separate brivla. It's better to think that ignoring a place in a discourse leads to putting {zi'o} into that place but without changing the predicate (therefore, {zi'o} is not really correct, let's just say the place is deleted). As for {konju} i filed a separate bug for it in the mriste. Its official definition is somewhat broken. > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --e89a8f3bb03d7d45d004fa27f058 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



2014-05-24 18:31 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas &l= t;jjllambias@gmai= l.com>:

On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 2:41 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Another revision of gimste done by m= e is complete.

I based it on excellent simple definitions of gismu mad= e by la .aionys. (.io) but changed them here and there.
The most important difference is that I specified possible sumti types= for each place.
E.g.
(event) - an event place. {nu} or any other place like = nicte1 that has {nu} inside is possible for this place.
(assertio= n) - du'u
(property) - ka with ce'u referring to x1 of th= e current gismu
(property of x2) - ka with ce'u referring to x2=C2=A0of the curren= t gismu
One of the rare sumti types is e.g. (ordered set) that requires = using {ce'o}.

Places with just x1, x2... witho= ut a sumti type specified imply "object" sumti type (e.g. mlatu1)=


Do you have a f= ull list of the types you used?
I tried to put all registered sumti types and subtypes into on= e table. However, I can miss some of them.
http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3DLa_Bangu:_dictionary=C2=A0

When you flag a place with a type, do you mean that no other type is allo= wed in that place

N= o other place is allowed. If you disagree for a given places of a given bri= vla please bug me.
Such restriction will allow users to manage the dictionary better and = avoid sumti raisings and metonymy.

, or just that at least the mentioned type is allowed?=C2=A0


T= he gismu that changed their place structure are:
zabna, mabla, traji, satci, konju

There are many gismu wit= h place structure "x1 is a ... (some shape) of material x2". If y= ou remove the material place from "konju", wouldn't it also m= ake sense to remove it from bolci, slanu, clupa, djine, bliku, tapla, tubnu= , grana, bidju, dirgo, and many others? Why "konju" specifically?= =C2=A0

To remove those material= places we'd need to assume that {slanu} can be only a material object.= Therefore, a cylinder drawn in AutoCAD would require a separate brivla. It= 's better to think that ignoring a place in a discourse leads to puttin= g {zi'o} into that place but without changing the predicate (therefore,= {zi'o} is not really correct, let's just say the place is deleted)= .

As for {konju} i filed a separate bug for it in the mri= ste. Its official definition is somewhat broken.

<= br>

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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