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Date: Sat, 24 May 2014 16:31:17 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Balningau: The Great Update
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 4:05 PM, 'John E. Clifford' via lojban <
lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Interesting, given the arduous history of 'lo'.  Assuming that 'zo'e' is
> here used in the sense of "the contextually specified thing", which is a
> change (restriction) from CLL, this 'lo' no longer does the job that led to
> the argument for its acceptance, since 'lo broda cu broda' is now a
> tautology, unless I've missed something crucial.  'lo broda' was meant, in
> most stages of the argument, including the last (I thought) to cover the
> semantic range of English "a broda", "the broda", "brodas" and "broda" in
> the non definite senses.  But at least the last of these may include in the
> referent of 'lo broda' things which are not broda in any sense, but rather,
> for example, broda bits.
>

If broda bits don't broda, they shouldn't be referred to as "lo broda", no.
But whether broda bits broda or not depends on context and the meaning of
"broda", not on "lo".


> (There was broda all over my bumper after I plowed into a herd of brodas.)
>
>

If "lo broda cu preja lo do karcybandu" then I would say that "lo preja be
lo do karcybandu cu broda", yes.


> This possibility comes out in the technical definition of 'lo broda' as
> the salient node in the upward lattice of the field of jest (me) on the set
> of brodas (in the domain).  Of course, this possibility does also rely on
> there not being any absolute individuals, since me here extends below
> things which are brodas (individual brodas still have members, they just
> aren't brodas).
>
> So we agree that there are no absolute individuals, just contextual ones.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 4:05 PM, &#39;John E. Clifford&#39; via lojban <spa=
n dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_bla=
nk">lojban@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div><div>Interesti=
ng, given the arduous history of &#39;lo&#39;. =C2=A0Assuming that &#39;zo&=
#39;e&#39; is here used in the sense of &quot;the contextually specified th=
ing&quot;, which is a change (restriction) from CLL, this &#39;lo&#39; no l=
onger does the job that led to the argument for its acceptance, since &#39;=
lo broda cu broda&#39; is now a tautology, unless I&#39;ve missed something=
 crucial. =C2=A0&#39;lo broda&#39; was meant, in most stages of the argumen=
t, including the last (I thought) to cover the semantic range of English &q=
uot;a broda&quot;, &quot;the broda&quot;, &quot;brodas&quot; and &quot;brod=
a&quot; in the non definite senses. =C2=A0But at least the last of these ma=
y include in the referent of &#39;lo broda&#39; things which are not broda =
in any sense, but rather, for example, broda bits. </div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If broda bits don&#39;t broda,=
 they shouldn&#39;t be referred to as &quot;lo broda&quot;, no. But whether=
 broda bits broda or not depends on context and the meaning of &quot;broda&=
quot;, not on &quot;lo&quot;.</div>
<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><d=
iv><div>(There was broda all over my bumper after I plowed into a herd of b=
rodas.) =C2=A0</div>
</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>If &quot;lo broda cu preja lo =
do karcybandu&quot; then I would say that &quot;lo preja be lo do karcyband=
u cu broda&quot;, yes.</div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail=
_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:=
1ex">
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div><div> This possibility comes out in the techn=
ical definition of &#39;lo broda&#39; as the salient node in the upward lat=
tice of the field of jest (me) on the set of brodas (in the domain). =C2=A0=
Of course, this possibility does also rely on there not being any absolute =
individuals, since me here extends below things which are brodas (individua=
l brodas still have members, they just aren&#39;t brodas).</div>
<div><br></div></div></div></blockquote><div>So we agree that there are no =
absolute individuals, just contextual ones.</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39=
;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div>=C2=A0</div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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