Received: from mail-we0-f184.google.com ([74.125.82.184]:57725) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WoWsF-0001hs-4A for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 04:46:05 -0700 Received: by mail-we0-f184.google.com with SMTP id x48sf612343wes.1 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 04:45:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=MYQjMMeeZPAtI1tSyS4XkUFuMMI3zlNGMOP8aoHxT9A=; b=NZ1K8hdGdwubCqRDJ/I9exwkVElS4jYmKX164GdXFDlAFYCCdPHLgC94EgF32h1xmT gsf2AvztSIswurDuRxbZXUqNWNC/3CFHOCQuAT0/yOHsZZskKJBltHrlj+dxiXLeYf0k cdVza6nZNmnD/M8bZ2sWgtNVWvZvukjlk+/nu4FI4tyeaqL5nJGH1RUd/QhRo3Qaq5jR AHuzd9/BzV329hqGMCRDj+d1rRW9VA5JYWw2nHfGH0/8o4eKSl/Zza3BpUQXqkhG+N3m s4u/on2CUKABxBjZKNpazUxRP9E7/hCCq3WQNILbbuQKVKjNvyOQd7TjnDDLRovsd3A8 Y9Ng== X-Received: by 10.180.87.65 with SMTP id v1mr37726wiz.4.1401018348054; Sun, 25 May 2014 04:45:48 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.98.7 with SMTP id ee7ls284915wib.22.gmail; Sun, 25 May 2014 04:45:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.181.13.196 with SMTP id fa4mr1291802wid.6.1401018347099; Sun, 25 May 2014 04:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x232.google.com (mail-wg0-x232.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::232]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h4si319203wib.2.2014.05.25.04.45.47 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 25 May 2014 04:45:47 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::232; Received: by mail-wg0-f50.google.com with SMTP id x12so6693618wgg.21 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 04:45:47 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.93.163 with SMTP id cv3mr18613034wib.3.1401018346934; Sun, 25 May 2014 04:45:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Sun, 25 May 2014 04:45:46 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 15:45:46 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04389539e49a8b04fa3800ec X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04389539e49a8b04fa3800ec Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-05-24 23:55 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > On Sat, May 24, 2014 at 1:35 PM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> 2014-05-24 18:31 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >> >>> >>> When you flag a place with a type, do you mean that no other type is >>> allowed in that place >>> >> >> No other place is allowed. If you disagree for a given places of a given >> brivla please bug me. >> > > Then I think you are being overly restrictive. > Yes, i chose the way "it's better to be restrictive and specify tersumti types especially in their relation to each other within the selsumti than to allow too much freedom" > I can't go over the whole list, but just from looking at some random word= s: > > The x1 of ckaji, for example, can be anything at all, it's not restricted > to objects. > okay, fixed > > I don't see why "lo since" couldn't go in the x1 of ckape. > Because then we dont know what is the property of {lo since} that makes it dangerous. > Since "object" and "group" are different types, does that mean that you > wouldn't accept a group as the x1 or x2 of ckasu? > good point. of course i would accept but for now im not sure how better to reflect that in the table. > What do you think of something like "mi ckire lo cevni lo nu mi ka'e > viska"? > > >> >> As for {konju} i filed a separate bug for it in the mriste. Its official >> definition is somewhat broken. >> > > The x3 of konju is somewhat like the stripes of tirxu, but the x2 is part > of a regular pattern. Arguably, all the "of material" places are a > hindrance, but picking on this particular one seems a bit random. Your > definition as cone made of lines > no, not lines but linear segments means you want it to be only for abstract cones? Would a traffic cone > qualify as a konju in your sense? > that cone is characterized by two segments such that one has been revolved around the other one forming the cone. I think we are going to delve into Uqbar now since e.g. a traffic triangle is similarly not really a triangle and so on meaning that geometrical ideal shapes are impossible in this real world. > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d04389539e49a8b04fa3800ec Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes, i chose =C2=A0the way "it's better to= be restrictive and specify tersumti types especially in their relation to = each other within the selsumti than to allow too much freedom"
I can't go over the whole list, but just from looking at some random = words:

The x1 of ckaji, for example, can be anything at all, i= t's not restricted to objects.
okay, fixed=C2=A0

I don't see why "lo since" couldn't go in= the x1 of ckape.
Because then we = dont know what is the property of {lo since} that makes it dangerous.


Since "object" and "group" are different= types, does that mean that you wouldn't accept a group as the x1 or x2= of ckasu?

good poi= nt. of course i would accept but for now im not sure how better to reflect = that in the table.


What do you= think of something like "mi ckire lo cevni lo nu mi ka'e viska&qu= ot;?
=C2=A0

As for {konju} i filed a separate bug for it in the mri= ste. Its official definition is somewhat broken.

The x3 of konju is somewhat like the st= ripes of tirxu, but the x2 is part of a regular pattern. Arguably, all the = "of material" places are a hindrance, but picking on this particu= lar one seems a bit random. =C2=A0Your definition as cone made of lines
no, not lines but linear segments=C2=A0=

means you want it to be only for abstract = cones? Would a traffic cone qualify as a konju in your sense?
that cone is characterized by two segments such= that one has been revolved around the other one forming the cone. I think = we are going to delve into Uqbar now since e.g. a traffic triangle is simil= arly not really a triangle and so on meaning that geometrical ideal shapes = are impossible in this real world.


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