Received: from mail-vc0-f187.google.com ([209.85.220.187]:56509) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WoZ9R-0004C6-0n for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:11:55 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f187.google.com with SMTP id hy4sf1214033vcb.4 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:11:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Yu2rtuMshpjUtTP01qii8uF/oqoQocfPcTyrJPh6FT8=; b=yl7c/U4T5zJBprVq9eEjUu/4ZdG1YCk0B+yIkQqwWbftWhYc7Rb1rZHidunaVTrFkj vZDG9U0PghGwyHdYJlMD0OMRJJ/UFlBsm9qOFKzp9rWDFXY3gkYFnlk1gV5kwQC5AB6F f/0BubUcMKE98mWVyAivHuRJFrbEcZ65OkyRC7g/4FgujIBOzGP7rtGrXwGNXmWeO9HD oroPXShGBMqsVI7xzz3Pr13Wg1dqcyWMnFow05xbNk5pavI4Y2RQzPitPr4MY3UD6c7M MZs2sLD51TzXJlVxIYksDfmQyBBVtO1kYf3vUo65eskWO0XmTceoyUqE90njMXAZ5Tas RW3w== X-Received: by 10.182.1.225 with SMTP id 1mr81193obp.6.1401027102538; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:11:42 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.80.230 with SMTP id u6ls773378obx.86.gmail; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:11:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.255.225 with SMTP id at1mr7986442obd.29.1401027102033; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x235.google.com (mail-ve0-x235.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id mf12si493869vdb.1.2014.05.25.07.11.42 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 25 May 2014 07:11:42 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235; Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id pa12so8128122veb.26 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:11:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.160.134 with SMTP id xk6mr30575veb.64.1401027101892; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:11:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.170.73 with HTTP; Sun, 25 May 2014 07:11:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 11:11:41 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b677b9cbaa5bc04fa3a0a67 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --047d7b677b9cbaa5bc04fa3a0a67 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > >> The x1 of ckaji, for example, can be anything at all, it's not restricted >> to objects. >> > okay, fixed > Are (object, event, text) all the types there are? x1 of ckaji can be of any type at all, not just those three. The same goes for mutce, milxe, dukse, satci, and so on. In fact any time one of the arguments is a property of another argument, there's a good chance that the type of that other argument is dictated only by the type of the ce'u in the property, This also applies to comparatives (zmadu, mleca, dunli, simsa,...) It would be easier to revise the list if you sort it by type signature rather than just alphabetically.For comparatives, the property is a property of each of two arguments, not just the first. > >> I don't see why "lo since" couldn't go in the x1 of ckape. >> > Because then we dont know what is the property of {lo since} that makes it > dangerous. > Surely that can't be the reason. In "lo nu kelci lo fagri cu ckape", how do you know what the property of playing with fire is that makes it dangerous? Since "object" and "group" are different types, does that mean that you >> wouldn't accept a group as the x1 or x2 of ckasu? >> > > good point. of course i would accept but for now im not sure how better to > reflect that in the table. > > I don't think "group" is a type in this sense at all. A few places do require plural arguments, but most (all?) places allow plural arguments. This is independent of the type of argument they expect. What do you think of something like "mi ckire lo cevni lo nu mi ka'e viska"? >> > You skipped this one. Can't x3 of ckire be an event? > means you want it to be only for abstract cones? Would a traffic cone >> qualify as a konju in your sense? >> > that cone is characterized by two segments such that one has been revolved > around the other one forming the cone. I think we are going to delve into > Uqbar now since e.g. a traffic triangle is similarly not really a triangle > and so on meaning that geometrical ideal shapes are impossible in this real > world. > My question is more basic. You decided to move "konju" from the bolci/slanu/... class to the linji/kurfa/... class. konju is not the only word in its class, so if you think it needs to be redefined, shouldn't all other words in that class be redefined as well? Why just "konju"? mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7b677b9cbaa5bc04fa3a0a67 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna &= lt;gleki.is= .my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
=

The x1 of ckaji, for example, can be anything at all, it= 9;s not restricted to objects.
okay, fixed=C2=A0

A= re (object, event, text) all the types there are? x1 of ckaji can be of any= type at all, not just those three.

The same goes = for mutce, milxe, dukse, satci, and so on. In fact any time one of the argu= ments is a property of another argument, there's a good chance that the= type of that other argument is dictated only by the type of the ce'u i= n the property, This also applies to comparatives (zmadu, mleca, dunli, sim= sa,...) It would be easier to revise the list if you sort it by type signat= ure rather than just alphabetically.For comparatives, the property is a pro= perty of each of two arguments, not just the first.

=C2=A0
=

I don't see why "lo since" couldn't go in= the x1 of ckape.
Because th= en we dont know what is the property of {lo since} that makes it dangerous.=

Surely that can't be= the reason. In "lo nu kelci lo fagri cu ckape", how do you know = what the property of playing with fire is that makes it dangerous?=C2=A0


Since "object" and "group" are different types, does t= hat mean that you wouldn't accept a group as the x1 or x2 of ckasu?

good point. of cou= rse i would accept but for now im not sure how better to reflect that in th= e table.


I d= on't think "group" is a type in this sense at all. A few plac= es do require plural arguments, but most (all?) places allow plural argumen= ts. This is independent of the type of argument they expect.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

=
What do you think of something like "mi ckire lo cevni lo nu mi ka= 9;e viska"?

You skipped this one. Can't x3 of ckire b= e an event?
=C2=A0
means you want it to be only for abstract c= ones? Would a traffic cone qualify as a konju in your sense?
that cone is characterized by two segments= such that one has been revolved around the other one forming the cone. I t= hink we are going to delve into Uqbar now since e.g. a traffic triangle is = similarly not really a triangle and so on meaning that geometrical ideal sh= apes are impossible in this real world.

My question is more basi= c. You decided to move "konju" from the bolci/slanu/... class to = the linji/kurfa/... class. konju is not the only word in its class, so if y= ou think it needs to be redefined, shouldn't all other words in that cl= ass be redefined as well? Why just "konju"?

mu'o mi'e xorxes


<= /div>

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