Received: from mail-wi0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]:54535) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Wob1L-0005C5-Ge for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:11:41 -0700 Received: by mail-wi0-f189.google.com with SMTP id cc10sf250466wib.26 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:11:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=GOP9dQdmMrmxUz034CbbTx0Kv8C6OEAG3M7oOUljN9Q=; b=P4t+btazmxJD65QBP73YlzGFoU4aW+WxizaimweUiVDhSg6RQ57Y0sz4m2LBorS6Dd PdeFoZnozDvRVkSefqupqrUi49NPkTWma9qtGuGSOYz1MSEEf6Hi49kvRR0XfY4aQB01 z+wY0qHCmY1KQaNayi/GbFrSRaTw+Cixz9lTV1q/qBm2BmT73lNerSujj78TE2Xv6ZDa 2Yasw2kSRNy3fVUWO5eLLgdvEdK1dWazXfF4ceM0UQC7CDNQie2YNalLEMx9RxBVQqJ8 NDgFLb0l0QT/dhL6HPhQjRVW0RadlTiS1COYWD8KytV5evsCqFQI2+gMi1Mjle1y9mtW QIRA== X-Received: by 10.180.36.107 with SMTP id p11mr39521wij.7.1401034288338; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:11:28 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.10.168 with SMTP id j8ls292003wib.47.canary; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.87.71 with SMTP id v7mr1373802wiz.2.1401034287332; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x22e.google.com (mail-wi0-x22e.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id h4si344481wib.2.2014.05.25.09.11.27 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 25 May 2014 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e; Received: by mail-wi0-f174.google.com with SMTP id r20so3089038wiv.7 for ; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.14.72 with SMTP id n8mr19764927wic.53.1401034287222; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Sun, 25 May 2014 09:11:27 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sun, 25 May 2014 20:11:27 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::22e as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04138a25021d3e04fa3bb7f5 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --f46d04138a25021d3e04fa3bb7f5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I added a new service column "Structure". See if it helps you. If you need each formula to be split into separate columns please inform. 2014-05-25 18:11 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > > > On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> The x1 of ckaji, for example, can be anything at all, it's not >>> restricted to objects. >>> >> okay, fixed >> > > Are (object, event, text) all the types there are? x1 of ckaji can be of > any type at all, not just those three. > > The same goes for mutce, milxe, dukse, satci, and so on. In fact any time > one of the arguments is a property of another argument, there's a good > chance that the type of that other argument is dictated only by the type = of > the ce'u in the property, This also applies to comparatives (zmadu, mleca= , > dunli, simsa,...) It would be easier to revise the list if you sort it by > type signature rather than just alphabetically.For comparatives, the > property is a property of each of two arguments, not just the first. > > > >> >>> I don't see why "lo since" couldn't go in the x1 of ckape. >>> >> Because then we dont know what is the property of {lo since} that makes >> it dangerous. >> > > Surely that can't be the reason. In "lo nu kelci lo fagri cu ckape", how > do you know what the property of playing with fire is that makes it > dangerous? > > > Since "object" and "group" are different types, does that mean that you >>> wouldn't accept a group as the x1 or x2 of ckasu? >>> >> >> good point. of course i would accept but for now im not sure how better >> to reflect that in the table. >> >> > I don't think "group" is a type in this sense at all. A few places do > require plural arguments, but most (all?) places allow plural arguments. > This is independent of the type of argument they expect. > > > What do you think of something like "mi ckire lo cevni lo nu mi ka'e >>> viska"? >>> >> > You skipped this one. Can't x3 of ckire be an event? > > >> means you want it to be only for abstract cones? Would a traffic cone >>> qualify as a konju in your sense? >>> >> that cone is characterized by two segments such that one has been >> revolved around the other one forming the cone. I think we are going to >> delve into Uqbar now since e.g. a traffic triangle is similarly not real= ly >> a triangle and so on meaning that geometrical ideal shapes are impossibl= e >> in this real world. >> > > My question is more basic. You decided to move "konju" from the > bolci/slanu/... class to the linji/kurfa/... class. konju is not the only > word in its class, so if you think it needs to be redefined, shouldn't al= l > other words in that class be redefined as well? Why just "konju"? > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d04138a25021d3e04fa3bb7f5 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I added a new service column "Structure". See if= it helps you. If you need each formula to be split into separate columns p= lease inform.


2014-05-25 18:11 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:



On Sun, May 25, 2014 at 8:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
=

The x1 of ckaji, for example, can be anything at all, it= 9;s not restricted to objects.
okay, fixed=C2=A0

=
Are (object, event, text) all the types there are? x1 of ckaji can be = of any type at all, not just those three.

The same= goes for mutce, milxe, dukse, satci, and so on. In fact any time one of th= e arguments is a property of another argument, there's a good chance th= at the type of that other argument is dictated only by the type of the ce&#= 39;u in the property, This also applies to comparatives (zmadu, mleca, dunl= i, simsa,...) It would be easier to revise the list if you sort it by type = signature rather than just alphabetically.For comparatives, the property is= a property of each of two arguments, not just the first.

=C2=A0

I don't see why "lo since" couldn't go in= the x1 of ckape.
Because th= en we dont know what is the property of {lo since} that makes it dangerous.=

Surely that can= 9;t be the reason. In "lo nu kelci lo fagri cu ckape", how do you= know what the property of playing with fire is that makes it dangerous?=C2= =A0


Since "object" and "group" are different types, does t= hat mean that you wouldn't accept a group as the x1 or x2 of ckasu?

good point. of cou= rse i would accept but for now im not sure how better to reflect that in th= e table.


I don't think "group" is a type in this sense at all. A fe= w places do require plural arguments, but most (all?) places allow plural a= rguments. This is independent of the type of argument they expect.=C2=A0
=C2=A0

What do you think of something like "mi ckire lo cevni lo nu mi ka= 9;e viska"?

You skipped this one. Can't x3 of c= kire be an event?
=C2=A0
means you want it to be only for abstract c= ones? Would a traffic cone qualify as a konju in your sense?
that cone is characterized by two segments= such that one has been revolved around the other one forming the cone. I t= hink we are going to delve into Uqbar now since e.g. a traffic triangle is = similarly not really a triangle and so on meaning that geometrical ideal sh= apes are impossible in this real world.

My question is mor= e basic. You decided to move "konju" from the bolci/slanu/... cla= ss to the linji/kurfa/... class. konju is not the only word in its class, s= o if you think it needs to be redefined, shouldn't all other words in t= hat class be redefined as well? Why just "konju"?

mu'o mi'e xorxes


<= /div>

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--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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