Received: from mail-lb0-f184.google.com ([209.85.217.184]:35207) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WpBXy-0007ZR-5z for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 27 May 2014 00:12:01 -0700 Received: by mail-lb0-f184.google.com with SMTP id n15sf694925lbi.1 for ; Tue, 27 May 2014 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=NGr1uUkxq6wl20LChu6Tw2LubMUICDZTD7jyi3XqOsM=; b=WLexyKGmD0C1c45Cno6a9fnte6ujm/xFndzOj7MsyEAbxi8heKODNOOLy2FwaTgviu HxaZyPKMdzkrbo5qzvayzY5daABGZMd75sEAeA+CbdqgSpTdTs1g6KdHylezkOzldh7b OcwzvttWisruzsdCq3A8nrmZyXLKpRytNG4EbFPPS5O93u0q410HjpWydzP3eqalRYQv cowXTw6iCTG1GiC0OYDkNsU0iIkl4z8DwqkCdqlyprR8kSISE1LYP4MHX6j7sRv2isHO XdSMHPmX5I5A/nBaR4HsQbfTb+HGSLj/japzJ5mDYbUqXr3QX9gqsdYOpGD3lxlnGuN1 hW9A== X-Received: by 10.152.23.41 with SMTP id j9mr3758laf.22.1401174693759; Tue, 27 May 2014 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.43.2 with SMTP id s2ls504148lal.32.gmail; Tue, 27 May 2014 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.152.43.3 with SMTP id s3mr1684714lal.5.1401174693202; Tue, 27 May 2014 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x230.google.com (mail-wg0-x230.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::230]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ng3si100452wic.0.2014.05.27.00.11.33 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 27 May 2014 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::230 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::230; Received: by mail-wg0-x230.google.com with SMTP id k14so4757100wgh.7 for ; Tue, 27 May 2014 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.248.130 with SMTP id ym2mr20616415wjc.88.1401174693070; Tue, 27 May 2014 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Tue, 27 May 2014 00:11:33 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 27 May 2014 11:11:33 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Geometry shapes categorization From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::230 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013d1442d94cbc04fa5c6753 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam_score: 0.0 X-Spam_score_int: 0 X-Spam_bar: / --089e013d1442d94cbc04fa5c6753 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Let's list most important geometry shapes and see if we can specify their defining parameters without resorting to metaphors or tanru. Warning: me not using geometry IRL for a long time can lead to mistakes below. 1. konju - x1 is a cone [shape/form] of material x2 with vertex x3. Also ellipse, ellipsoid (=3D konclupa). See also jesni, djine, sovda, ko= jna, jganu. *Cone is formed by a linear segment rotating around an "imaginary" linear segment such that they they intersect with each other= on one of their ends. Cone forms a surface, it is not solid. We need to specify a). the length of the linear segment and b). either the bottom o= f the cone (which is a circle) or the angle between the two linear segment= s* 2. djine - x1 is a ring/annulus/torus/circle [shape/form] of material x2, inside diam. x3, outside diam. x4. Also ellipse, oval (=3D jincla); (usage has been for near-circles, such as tight spirals, even if not clo= sed loops). Also band, belt, encircle (=3D jinsru). See also clupa, cukla, d= asri, karli, sovda, sruri, konju. *Is it terete in cross-section? How to specify parameters of circles-ellipses?* 3. cukla x1 is round/circular [2-dimensional shape/form]; x1 is a disk/circle/ring. Normally used for a filled-in circle/disk, but emphasi= s on roundness means that the concept may include 'ring'. See also djine, ranji, bolci, tarmi. *Okay, so a more general than ring concept. Seems that we don=E2=80=99t need a diameter place* 4. mijgresirji - x1 is a diameter between x2 and x3 of x4. *Diameter =E2= =80=93 do we need it as a separate brivla?* 5. linji x1 is a line/among lines [1-dimensional shape/form] defined by set of points x2. Ray/vector (farli'i or porli'i). See also kruvi, sirji= , jganu, kantu, mokca. *Seems to be okay?* 6. clupa - x1 is a loop/circuit of x2 [material]. *Is it the same as djine? Or it doesn=E2=80=99t need to be solid and can be made out of sof= t materials? Do we need its length or radius?* 7. jganu - x1 is an angle [2-dimensional shape/form] from vertex x2 subtended by lateral [segment] x3. Also (adjective:) x1 is angular; x2 corner; (segment x3 can be defined by interval). See also kojna, linji, konju, mokca. *Okay, so jganu2 specifies the measure of the angle and jganu3 specifies the length of its sides. Wiktionary says there are two meanings of =E2=80=9Cangle=E2=80=9D:* A. =E2=80=8BA. (geometry) A figure formed by two rays which start from a = common point (a plane angle) or by three planes that intersect (a solid angle). E.g. =E2=80=9Cthe angle between lines A and B=E2=80=9D B. B. =E2=80=8B(geometry) The measure of such a figure. In the case of = a plane angle, this is the ratio (or proportional to the ratio) of the arc length to the radius of a section of a circle cut by the two rays, centered at their common point. In the case of a solid angle, this is the ratio of the surface area to the square of the radius of the section of a sphere. E.g. =E2=80=9CThe angle between lines A and B is =CF=80/4 radians, or 45 degrees= .=E2=80=9D *Seems that we can=E2=80=99t express three-planes angle.* 1. bolci x1 is a ball/sphere/orb/globe [shape/form] of material x2; x1 is a spherical object [made of x2]. Also round. See also bliku, cukla, bidju, gunro. *Radius or if ellipsoid or geoid then what?* 2. tanbo x1 is a board/plank [3-dimensional long flat rectangle] of material x2. See also bliku, kubli. 1. bliku x1 is a block [3-dimensional shape/form] of material x2, surfaces/sides x3. x3 sides/surfaces should include number, size, and shape; also polyhedron (=3D pitybli having flat/planar sides/surfaces). regular polyhedron (=3D kubybli, blikubli), brick (=3D kitybli); See als= o tapla, kubli, tanbo, canlu, kojna, sefta, bolci, kurfa, tarmi. 2. kurfa x1 is a right-angled shape/form defined by set of vertices x2, dimensions x3 (default 2). Also rectangle, square, rectilinear; square (= =3D kubykurfa, pitkubykurfa), cube (=3D kurkubli), rectangle (=3D clakurfa), rhombus/diamond (=3D sa'orkurfa, sa'orpitkubli). See also bliku, kubli, tapla, salpo, tarmi. 3. kubli x1 is a cube/regular polyhedron/polygon of dimensions x2 (def. 3), surfaces/sides x3 (def. 6). (cf. kurfa - needed for 'cube', bliku fo= r a physical object; tanbo, tapla, tarmi). *Seems that bliku3 is better to express with kubli2 and kubli3? For tanbo it seems to be the only option= .* Also I wish to have examples of kubli2, kubli3, kurfa2 fiile dwith something sclearly specified. Many important shapes are not in gimste. E.g. pyramid. It was suggested pirmidi - x1 is a pyramid of base/side x2 and height x3 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e013d1442d94cbc04fa5c6753 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Let's list most important geometry shapes and see if we can specify their defining paramete= rs without resorting to metaphors or tanru.

Warning: me not using geometry IRL for a long time can lead to mistakes below.

  1. konju =C2=A0- x1 is a cone [shape/form] of material x2 with vertex x3. Also ellipse, ellipsoid (=3D konclupa). Se= e also jesni, djine, sovda, kojna, jganu. Cone is formed by a linear segment rotating around an "imaginary" linear segment such that they they intersect with each other on one of their ends. Cone forms a surface, it is not solid. We need to specify = a). the length of the linear segment and b). either the bottom of the cone (which is a circle) or the angle between the two linear segments
  2. djine =C2=A0- x1 is a ring/annulus/torus/circle [shape/form] of material x2, inside diam. x3, outside diam. x4. Also ellipse, oval (=3D jincla); (usage has been for near-circles, such as = tight spirals, even if not closed loops). Also band, belt, encircle (=3D jin= sru). See also clupa, cukla, dasri, karli, sovda, sruri, konju. Is it ter= ete in cross-section? How to specify parameters of circles-ellipses?
  3. cukla x1 is round/circular [2-dimensional shape/form]; x1 is a disk/circle/ring. Normally used for a filled-in circle/disk, but emphasis on roundness means that the concept may incl= ude 'ring'. See also djine, ranji, bolci, tarmi. Okay, so a mor= e general than ring concept. Seems that we don=E2=80=99t need a diameter place
  4. mijgresirji - x1 is a diameter between x2 and x3 of x4. Diameter =E2=80=93 do we need it as a separate brivla?
  5. linji x1 is a line/among lines [1-dimensional shape/form] defined by set of points x2. Ray/vector (farli'i or po= rli'i). See also kruvi, sirji, jganu, kantu, mokca. =C2=A0Seems to be okay?
  6. clupa =C2=A0- x1 is a loop/circuit of x2 [material]. Is it the same as djine? Or it doesn=E2=80=99t need to be solid and can b= e made out of soft materials? Do we need its length or radius?
  7. jganu - x1 is an angle [2-dimensional shape/form] from vertex x2 subtended by lateral [segment] x3. Also (adjective:) x1= is angular; x2 corner; (segment x3 can be defined by interval). See also kojna, linji, konju, mokca. Okay, so jganu2 specifies the measure of the angle and jganu3 specifies the length of its sides. Wiktionary says there are two meanings of =E2=80= =9Cangle=E2=80=9D:

A.=C2=A0=C2=A0 = =E2=80=8BA. (geometry) A figure formed by two rays which start from a common point (a plane angle) o= r by three planes that intersect (a solid angle). E.g. =E2=80=9Cthe angle betwee= n lines A and B=E2=80=9D

B. =C2=A0 B.=C2= =A0=C2=A0 = =E2=80=8B(geometry) The measure of such a figure. In the case of a plane angle, this is the ratio (= or proportional to the ratio) of the arc length to the radius of a section of = a circle cut by the two rays, centered at their common point. In the case of = a solid angle, this is the ratio of the surface area to the square of the rad= ius of the section of a sphere. E.g. =E2=80=9CThe angle between lines A and B i= s =CF=80/4 radians, or 45 degrees.=E2=80=9D

Seems that we can=E2=80=99t express t= hree-planes angle.

  1. bolci x1 is a ball/sphere/orb/globe [shape/form] of material x2; x1 is a spherical object [made of x2]. Also round. See also bliku, cukla, bidju, gunro. Radius or if ellipsoid or geoid then what?
  2. tanbo x1 is a board/plank [3-dimensional long flat rectangle] of material x2. See also bliku, kubli.

=C2=A0

  1. bliku x1 is a block [3-dimensional shape/form] of material x2, surfaces/sides x3. x3 sides/surfaces should include numbe= r, size, and shape; also polyhedron (=3D pitybli having flat/planar sides/surfaces). regular polyhedron (=3D kubybli, blikubli), brick (= =3D kitybli); See also tapla, kubli, tanbo, canlu, kojna, sefta, bolci, ku= rfa, tarmi.
  2. kurfa x1 is a right-angled shape/form defined by set of vertices x2, dimensions x3 (default 2). Also rectangle, square, rectilinear; square (=3D kubykurfa, pitkubykurfa), cube (=3D kurkubli)= , rectangle (=3D clakurfa), rhombus/diamond (=3D sa'orkurfa, sa'= orpitkubli). See also bliku, kubli, tapla, salpo, tarmi.
  3. kubli x1 is a cube/regular polyhedron/polygon of dimensions x2 (def. 3), surfaces/sides x3 (def. 6). (cf. kurfa - neede= d for 'cube', bliku for a physical object; tanbo, tapla, tarmi).= Seems that bliku3 is better to express with kubli2 and kubli3? For tanbo it seems to be the only option.<= /span>

Also I wish to have examples of kubli2, kubli3, kurfa2 fiile dwith something sclearly specified.

=C2=A0

Many important shapes are not in gimste. E.g. pyramid. It was suggested

pirmidi - x1 is a pyramid of base/side x2 and height x3

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