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Date: Sat, 31 May 2014 21:30:34 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete
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On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>> Right now in x1 space there are 188 object+event places (including "any
> type" places), 97 pure "event" places, 1062 "object"/"object+number"
> places. It'd be a huge work to determine if we can merge "event" and
> "object" types together in every case.
>

It doesn't have to be done in one day, but I think any object ko'a could be
seen as the event "lo nu ko'a du ko'a", "ko'a being itself".


> Apart from them sance1 and zgike1 (have the role "sound") can be probably
> merged. Although I wonder if they are of "text" type too (krixa, siclu,
> cmoni also have "text+sound" places).
>

I think "sound" is way too specific to be a type. Something like "living
organism", or even "container" would have many more instances than "sound".
And if sance1 and zgike1 are "sound", shouldn't tonga1, voksa1, savru1 and
rilti1 be as well?

Other suspect types in x1 are:

(la'e text) for lerfu1. "la'e text" doesn't mean anything, since anything
at all can be la'e text with the right text. lo lerfu cu sinxa gi'e marna,
I don't think we need to treat it as a special type.

mixre/gunma/kamni/ciste/lanzu/jenmi have x1 (mass), while
bakfu/derxi/sorcu/stura/liste/trene/linji/cecmu/bende/salta/sanmi and
perhaps others don't. I don't think (mass) should be a type. These are just
things that consist of a group of more or less homogeneous things and which
as a group is distinctive enough to get special recognition as an emerging
object.

jinga/casnu/porsi are marked as sets, I think casnu and porsi are just
groups, they only need to be plural, and jinga doesn't even need to be a
group, I don't get why it's marked as a set. rilti is marked as a sequence
but again it should be just a group, it shouldn't have a sui generis type.

ckilu/sidbo are marked as "(concept)". A sidbo is a du'u, it's something
that could potentially become a fact. I don't think it needs a special
type. And ckilu has little to do with concepts, as far as I can tell.

pincivi is marked as "(body)", which seems strange given that
vikmi/vamtu/sputu/kafke/klaku/vasxu/citka/pinxe/xagji/taske/... are not
(and should not).

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 3:11 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name=
@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"=
margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,20=
4,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
><br></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div>Right now in x1 space =
there are 188 object+event places (including &quot;any type&quot; places), =
97 pure &quot;event&quot; places, 1062 &quot;object&quot;/&quot;object+numb=
er&quot; places. It&#39;d be a huge work to determine if we can merge &quot=
;event&quot; and &quot;object&quot; types together in every case.</div>

</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It doesn&#39;t have to b=
e done in one day, but I think any object ko&#39;a could be seen as the eve=
nt &quot;lo nu ko&#39;a du ko&#39;a&quot;, &quot;ko&#39;a being itself&quot=
;.</div>

<div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=
=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>Apart from them sance1 and zgike1 (have the role &quot;sound&quot;) ca=
n be probably merged. Although I wonder if they are of &quot;text&quot; typ=
e too (krixa, siclu, cmoni also have &quot;text+sound&quot; places).</div>

</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>I think &quot;sound&quot=
; is way too specific to be a type. Something like &quot;living organism&qu=
ot;, or even &quot;container&quot; would have many more instances than &quo=
t;sound&quot;. And if sance1 and zgike1 are &quot;sound&quot;, shouldn&#39;=
t tonga1, voksa1, savru1 and rilti1 be as well?</div>

<div><br></div><div>Other suspect types in x1 are:</div><div><br></div><div=
>(la&#39;e text) for lerfu1. &quot;la&#39;e text&quot; doesn&#39;t mean any=
thing, since anything at all can be la&#39;e text with the right text. lo l=
erfu cu sinxa gi&#39;e marna, I don&#39;t think we need to treat it as a sp=
ecial type.</div>

<div><br></div><div>mixre/gunma/kamni/ciste/lanzu/jenmi have x1 (mass), whi=
le bakfu/derxi/sorcu/stura/liste/trene/linji/cecmu/bende/salta/sanmi and pe=
rhaps others don&#39;t. I don&#39;t think (mass) should be a type. These ar=
e just things that consist of a group of more or less homogeneous things an=
d which as a group is distinctive enough to get special recognition as an e=
merging object.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>jinga/casnu/porsi are marked as sets, I think casnu and=
 porsi are just groups, they only need to be plural, and jinga doesn&#39;t =
even need to be a group, I don&#39;t get why it&#39;s marked as a set. rilt=
i is marked as a sequence but again it should be just a group, it shouldn&#=
39;t have a sui generis type.</div>
<div><br></div><div>ckilu/sidbo are marked as &quot;(concept)&quot;. A sidb=
o is a du&#39;u, it&#39;s something that could potentially become a fact. I=
 don&#39;t think it needs a special type. And ckilu has little to do with c=
oncepts, as far as I can tell.=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>pincivi is marked as &quot;(body)&quot;, which seems st=
range given that vikmi/vamtu/sputu/kafke/klaku/vasxu/citka/pinxe/xagji/task=
e/... are not (and should not).</div><div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e =
xorxes</div>
<div><br></div></div></div></div>

<p></p>

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