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[216.109.115.216]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id ci7si760966qcb.1.2014.06.04.07.01.58 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 04 Jun 2014 07:01:58 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.115.216 as permitted sender) client-ip=216.109.115.216; Received: from [66.196.81.155] by nm26.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2014 14:01:57 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.135] by tm1.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2014 14:01:57 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1011.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 04 Jun 2014 14:01:57 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 686583.30792.bm@omp1011.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 98351 invoked by uid 60001); 4 Jun 2014 14:01:57 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: Jpw1R50VM1kVDjTvp34jYN_3gQs8Li23PI39lfmr2jMcg5e aScm3Bv3svbEkUJBlRiAKQpFX7qJ5MtZK81E93pfgHiOtX8hYB.G..gVvTf7 iZ6AfruDE2dB2eRSL_y1yMge0yIJgwlGLPltFmk6ZZmBpme_Cdu6RCwGS1Gm 8Tlpq66ARxKXgBPI7ojMP59TY3GDY1uzOLCPBCFVQ5kWLa69Hi5Xy3r_eYpd SEGjymcXtBGsb_S1KpytG9TnQWfc2ZfP6_.vc2_elFdTK0LF8mQ1iCWcguw6 Q73bJHKpvZPL5mze5I5LwCXtKcUD9wS1WQhyAK_wN_0.FxTLfJoP7E8.k.Jh 93vHy05XYICJ4.OZfj7uj0u5y.oRvea6UjYExnKumgopcbVivhSMGN9r1p1C suRv5RJBM2VK6BTNgXhDb0UiZdLaSUl0xGMG4qDQb_k0rlmQSgxh7jShksD9 nMDYJy7cykTIMm2p8vKNaC5BR5e7bU4oNOqTKdYHlta5bEFQlf0KixseCOnL KMisYoWSROrv9.yn.6ICBnBWXO88t9qRdB0xsZ5PoictoyoBr0fg2RDyoUgw c6imoyhoHm0CcaqLSz66jNDnrP.R0ObGsSd0z1cUYhKR3ETzTPh3IBmiELkh 8myttvzCqzUPjM8iwoGoM9x1PLoe0QT5Hsc3wdxzmde_Ifj5nUD0AWnDq1UA 4dvTzsWbIy8cJmJBK3HtCrcX8.Z0wmfDq7FeEVeaX6UnMH3P3KuWChB_9BEs 5OUwWGQom38mg86YlPBCkhkjIlKql1p8kMcFPYHMJ14FZ_FyqSny.gewGEgR 1bjicKUM0nZ9fmx_bjt9Z1cdHL8JwV86lYuNRKt1N5RCAcDyWIcuAmHJcb5o DfFk3n_Is.xo- Received: from [99.92.109.82] by web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 04 Jun 2014 07:01:57 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,QXQgZmlyc3QgZ2xhbmNlLCB0aGUgYW5zd2VyIHRvIHRoZSBiZWdnZWQgcHJpb3IgcXVlc3Rpb24gc2VlbXMgdG8gYmUgIk5vLiIgwqAgVGhlIG9ubHkgY2FuZGlkYXRlIHRoYXQgaXMgaW1tZWRpYXRlbHkgYXBwYXJlbnQgaXMgdGhlIG5lZWQgZm9yIGEgcHJvcGVyIGdyYW1tYXIgdG8gcmVhbGx5IHNwZWNpZnkgYSBsYW5ndWFnZSwgdGhhdCAxNiBydWxlcyBhbmQgYSAiZG8gd2hhdCB5b3UgdXN1YWxseSBkbyIgbm90ZSAoY2YuIEVzcGVyYW50bywgYnV0IG1vc3Qgb3RoZXIgY29ubGFuZ3MgYXMgd2VsbCkgaXMBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.188.663 References: Message-ID: <1401890517.58471.YahooMailNeo@web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 07:01:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "'John E Clifford' via lojban" Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] In what ways specifically has lojban benefited from the field of linguistics that Esperanto, and other early conlangs did not? To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.115.216 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Original-From: John E Clifford Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-910415156-1291235008-1401890517=:58471" X-Spam-Score: -1.8 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_bar: - ---910415156-1291235008-1401890517=:58471 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At first glance, the answer to the begged prior question seems to be "No." = =A0 The only candidate that is immediately apparent is the need for a prope= r grammar to really specify a language, that 16 rules and a "do what you us= ually do" note (cf. Esperanto, but most other conlangs as well) is not enou= gh. =A0The central role of grammars =A0comes from Linguistics, perhaps, but= the grammars we actually use are primarily from Computer Science, hence ul= timately Number Theory. =A0To be sure, Linguistics has come to draw its not= ions of grammars from this same source, but the grammars for Lojban make us= e of few of the Linguistic applications of these theories. =A0(Lojban, as "= spoken formal logic" =A0-- which it certainly is not obviously -- would be = a natural for a grammar of generations and transformations, but no such gra= mmar has been developed -- or even proposed, so far as I can find). =A0Beyo= nd that, Lojban seems to have little to do with Linguistics -- it has even rather systematically rejected standard terminology. On Wednesday, June 4, 2014 3:49 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: =20 In what ways specifically has lojban benefited from the field of linguistic= s that Esperanto, and other early conlangs did not? http://www.reddit.com/r/lojban/comments/2771z6/in_what_ways_specifically_ha= s_lojban_benefited/ --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ---910415156-1291235008-1401890517=:58471 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
At first glance, the answer to the begged prior qu= estion seems to be "No."   The only candidate that is immediately appa= rent is the need for a proper grammar to really specify a language, that 16= rules and a "do what you usually do" note (cf. Esperanto, but most other c= onlangs as well) is not enough.  The central role of grammars  co= mes from Linguistics, perhaps, but the grammars we actually use are primari= ly from Computer Science, hence ultimately Number Theory.  To be sure,= Linguistics has come to draw its notions of grammars from this same source= , but the grammars for Lojban make use of few of the Linguistic application= s of these theories.  (Lojban, as "spoken formal logic"  -- which= it certainly is not obviously -- would be a natural for a grammar of generations and transformations, but no such grammar has been developed --= or even proposed, so far as I can find).  Beyond that, Lojban seems t= o have little to do with Linguistics -- it has even rather systematically r= ejected standard terminology.

On Wed= nesday, June 4, 2014 3:49 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com= > wrote:


In what ways specifically has lojba= n benefited from the field of linguistics that Esperanto, and other early c= onlangs did not?

http://www.reddit.com/r/lojban/comments/2771z6/in_what_ways_specifical= ly_has_lojban_benefited/
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