Received: from mail-wg0-f59.google.com ([74.125.82.59]:40621) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WsolW-0000VR-S2 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:40:47 -0700 Received: by mail-wg0-f59.google.com with SMTP id k14sf161203wgh.24 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:40:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Vk+RunBSwxU3hE6Y7n/HQY6MVcRRkBXAgnHvUUtGomY=; b=zCZrstqgigHjbsRi69sliXbRi78xiCyJKRisshNEMaeUWdDKd4ICf5ZJ2EBRPZQTW2 xSGne62U840aZPUTN2jSlu8I33wjJR9rRhhZ+vrRhoNcfWnGYK1Gjs9qSdY82bW9TNvD Bhkwq2ai/6+c5NcKbaUGKPXTtmNUmi/ny4Gdxionpjnmas7Xx3Yondqw/hAsdfhjKjNu flC8f8HVsSszQvpXMNXxue38CkqwYBsJ3I59u0fKofvEgy8nNozwMidnfS4d2LhswfQu 9j772ABoGXF9d6XUPZmftYR9dDH4Fcxkaf3ex0NsPB47LJCaapV1atO8GXl3UhsuE5Uz 2VbA== X-Received: by 10.152.43.227 with SMTP id z3mr44068lal.3.1402040435730; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:40:35 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.10.4 with SMTP id e4ls100039lab.84.gmail; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:40:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.152.6.97 with SMTP id z1mr1060845laz.0.1402040435113; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22b.google.com (mail-wg0-x22b.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id s1si1211449wiw.3.2014.06.06.00.40.35 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:40:35 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b; Received: by mail-wg0-f43.google.com with SMTP id l18so2385832wgh.14 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:40:35 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.207.9 with SMTP id ls9mr2052106wic.32.1402040434990; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:40:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 00:40:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53903D84.90502@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:40:34 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22b as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3cdc016a52904fb25fad1 X-Spam-Score: -2.6 (--) X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_bar: -- --001a11c3cdc016a52904fb25fad1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-06-06 4:05 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Gleki Arxokuna > wrote: >> >> >> A similar behaviour is for {cortu}. >> >> By default {mi cortu lo xance} =3D {mi cortu lo xance be mi} >> >> The second {mi} of course can be changed but only if we are talking abou= t >> Avatar technologies. >> Still by default it is the same as x1 of the outer bridi, i.e. cortu1. >> > > I think you will find this behavior in most of the gismu that contain the > word "locus" in their definition. > > But I don't like this wording: > "x2 (object; by default the second place of which is the same as x1)" > > Objects don't have argument places > Imagine that the place structure required NU in cortu2. {mi cortu lo nu xance mi}. Although, I don't know if this behavior exists with cortu2 in any natlangs. , and besides, even though most, perhaps all, body-part gismu have the > "body" in x2, there's no rule that a body-part can only be referred to wi= th > a body-part word. You could say "mi cortu lo te jgari", and that should n= ot > mean "lo te jgari be mi" by default. You could say: > > "x2 (object; a locus on x1)" or something like that. > That would require specifying "locus" as a role in all those brivla. > > > > >> I'm not sure about sevzi2 but I think it should also be x1 be default so >> that >> {mi catra lo sevzi} =3D {mi catra lo sevzi be mi}. >> > > This is something quite different, but in the definition of "sevzi" you > should be talking about the places of "sevzi", not the places of "catra" = or > any selbri in which "lo sevzi" could be used as an argument. > I propose "x1 is a self of x2 (x1 by default)". For "ego" we need another brivla. > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c3cdc016a52904fb25fad1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



2014-06-06 4:05 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <= ;jjllambias@gmail= .com>:

On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 2:56 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <g= leki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

A similar behaviour is for {cortu}.

By default {mi cortu lo xanc= e} =3D {mi cortu lo xance be mi}

The second {mi} of course can be ch= anged but only if we are talking about Avatar technologies.
Still by def= ault it is the same as x1 of the outer bridi, i.e. cortu1.

I think you will find th= is behavior in most of the gismu that contain the word "locus" in= their definition.

But I don't like this wordi= ng:
"x2 (object; by default the second place of which is the s= ame as x1)"

Objects don't have argument places

Imagine =C2=A0that the = place structure required NU in cortu2.
{mi cortu lo nu xance mi}. Although, I don't know if this behavior exis= ts with cortu2 in any natlangs.

, and besides, even though most, perhaps all, body-part gismu have = the "body" in x2, there's no rule that a body-part can only b= e referred to with a body-part word. You could say "mi cortu lo te jga= ri", and that should not mean "lo te jgari be mi" by default= . You could say:

"x2 (object; a locus on x1)&q= uot; or something like that.

That would require speci= fying "locus" as a role in all those brivla.
=C2=A0


=C2=A0
I'm not sure about sevzi2 but I think it should also be x1 be default s= o that=C2=A0
{mi catra lo sevzi} =3D {mi catra lo sevzi be mi}.

This is something quite diffe= rent, but in the definition of "sevzi" you should be talking abou= t the places of "sevzi", not the places of "catra" or a= ny selbri in which "lo sevzi" could be used as an argument.=C2=A0=

I propose "x1 is a self of x2 = (x1 by default)".

For "ego" we need another brivla.

mu'o mi'e xorxes
=C2=A0

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