Received: from mail-ve0-f186.google.com ([209.85.128.186]:47326) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Wt0pb-0007iN-6e for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:33:53 -0700 Received: by mail-ve0-f186.google.com with SMTP id db11sf681512veb.23 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=6VAHWuWq6viophiD7X0RXne87euPw7QSfGBCagecduM=; b=ZGrOgVvjXLhNJO1GBzQnx0GPehPIGd7ZvPmTJL/q7A5A1dq9Nj9XjfmO/4UYEnWqvS IBRiL6dB8JtdQOcTjEOoQYxXOGJnsvQ07nW/q/ZxRFjBsjqL717RNYgYYuQrm4JNaHFG FK0DnZUt4RTXu9wKucdnwJiGZngmr1LbCL6JBMsNlnazgsDf+NwceOzNoh4ZBw/e25bJ Nnj1cEJxKRWDUhUugzkb1nrmofrW2Xs816Jsa3OOYdgnXZ9fGCTPIZWiPeh9TKMK1SR+ G57YPInJ/t/kMS78asOmdbUEmMfXRz5h0E/xYSSAoHmcl0LkRWeaYrMIkntUMRP+oXCn iA+g== X-Received: by 10.50.73.196 with SMTP id n4mr46757igv.14.1402086816736; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.73.195 with SMTP id n3ls352941igv.40.canary; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.148.1 with SMTP id to1mr3373163igb.0.1402086816352; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x22c.google.com (mail-ve0-x22c.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pr8si720690vdb.1.2014.06.06.13.33.36 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c; Received: by mail-ve0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id oz11so3941078veb.17 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.230.34 with SMTP id sv2mr7007099vdc.57.1402086816188; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 13:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.170.73 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 13:33:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53903D84.90502@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 17:33:35 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22c as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0102f9ea9f8ca804fb30c6cc X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --089e0102f9ea9f8ca804fb30c6cc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 4:40 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > 2014-06-06 4:05 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > >> >> But I don't like this wording: >> "x2 (object; by default the second place of which is the same as x1)" >> >> Objects don't have argument places >> > > Imagine that the place structure required NU in cortu2. > {mi cortu lo nu xance mi}. Although, I don't know if this behavior exists > with cortu2 in any natlangs. > Events don't have argument places either. Predicates have argument places. I understand what you mean, I just don't think your wording there was correct. I'm not sure about sevzi2 but I think it should also be x1 be default so >>> that >>> {mi catra lo sevzi} =3D {mi catra lo sevzi be mi}. >>> >> >> This is something quite different, but in the definition of "sevzi" you >> should be talking about the places of "sevzi", not the places of "catra"= or >> any selbri in which "lo sevzi" could be used as an argument. >> > > I propose "x1 is a self of x2 (x1 by default)". > If x2 is x1 by default, then "sevzi" defaults to "du". I think you mean the x1 of the main selbri in which "sevzi" is used as a description of an argument, rather than the x1 of sevzi, which is the only one you can really mention in a definition of "sevzi" mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e0102f9ea9f8ca804fb30c6cc Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 4:40 AM, Gleki Arxokuna &l= t;gleki.is.= my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
=
2014-06-06 4:05 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADa= s <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

But I don't like this wording:
"x2 (object; by default the second place of which is the s= ame as x1)"

Objects don't have argument places

Imagine =C2=A0tha= t the place structure required NU in cortu2.
{mi cortu lo nu xance mi}. Although, I don't know if this behavior exis= ts with cortu2 in any natlangs.

Events don't have argument places either. Predicates h= ave argument places. I understand what you mean, I just don't think you= r wording there was correct.
=C2=A0=C2=A0

I'm not sure about sevzi2 but I think it should also be x1 be default s= o that=C2=A0
{mi catra lo sevzi} =3D {mi catra lo sevzi be mi}.

This is something quite diffe= rent, but in the definition of "sevzi" you should be talking abou= t the places of "sevzi", not the places of "catra" or a= ny selbri in which "lo sevzi" could be used as an argument.=C2=A0=

I propose "x1 is a self = of x2 (x1 by default)".
<= br>
If x2 is x1 by default, then "sevzi" defaults to &q= uot;du". I think you mean the x1 of the main selbri in which "sev= zi" is used as a description of an argument, rather than the x1 of sev= zi, which is the only one you can really mention in a definition of "s= evzi"

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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