Received: from mail-ie0-f185.google.com ([209.85.223.185]:38110) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Wt3ih-00009m-Vs for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:38:53 -0700 Received: by mail-ie0-f185.google.com with SMTP id to1sf736680ieb.22 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:38:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=jhcaVCjxzCWGMrkW0lp2Y93p0gQjPmWl2oxpQKUYL/Y=; b=F6z0FEtOXdCvZKqI5UUcrV+KllRL1OHcyIXdRrzyg17U0TeMgqPXJFBOfZkXS0hkNm 9S72aQlaOD8Miph2o+NCIgnyfwFHDv9Ls1xFFzUNbLvsgtqszPQamheKfaGYwLYkeSeF 10QD+YN3GgC+dOZWVqRw1p1fclBa9SoKMyBIMXzJr3hkKLBCE9tLIKx6PIKowgSBwSM/ GQshuiQtx5pYQUeFmSVfVO0GzniHprurOTPqWJLhlakTks3S7phXL766X+k68SUewwbY TdEE5EVApWWGRg2EYSbHNM0gfMsPyvT645h7et52H+ptjPiBW4KcV+WBU+cptEQuIdlg H6AQ== X-Received: by 10.140.32.166 with SMTP id h35mr51366qgh.23.1402097921993; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:38:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.88.115 with SMTP id s106ls942259qgd.49.gmail; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:38:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.58.94.232 with SMTP id df8mr5322388veb.23.1402097921523; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x230.google.com (mail-vc0-x230.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c03::230]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id pr8si766193vdb.1.2014.06.06.16.38.41 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::230 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c03::230; Received: by mail-vc0-f176.google.com with SMTP id im17so3919138vcb.7 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:38:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.28.205 with SMTP id d13mr7508512veh.55.1402097921445; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 16:38:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.170.73 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 16:38:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53903D84.90502@gmx.de> Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 20:38:41 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::230 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7b6dc1e68c544204fb335c06 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --047d7b6dc1e68c544204fb335c06 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 A few comments on some x3's that caught my attention: (1) What would be an example of a scale in dukti3? I think dukti3 will usually be a property with kau: ko'a ko'e dukti lo ka ce'u jinvi ma kau ko'a ko'e dukti lo ka ce'u cinse fi ma kau (ignoring the messiness of the "cinse" place structure) ko'a ko'e dukti lo ka ce'u zvati lo mo kau mlana be lo klaji ko'a ko'e dukti lo ka ma kau farna ce'u ko'a ko'e dukti lo ka ce'u dikca fi ma kau and so on. Are those scales? (2) You have "klani" backwards. x2 is the number, x1 is the thing, as in all other measure words. "klani" is the generic measure word. ko'a klani li ci lo ka xo kau da bruna ce'u ko'a klani li pa pi mu lo ka ce'u citka lo xo kau plise ko'a klani li mu lo ka ce'u xo roi klama lo zdani be mi and so on. So, can we say that scales are property+kau? If so, then a lot more places should be marked as "scale", all the comparatives for example. (3) If lidne3 is something like a lerfu2, I don't think it's a plural: ko'a lidne ko'e lo latmo selyle'u (4) ckini1 and ckini2 can be of any type. "ckini" is the two-place equivalent of "ckaji", they are completely general. (5) Why is cimni3 (quantity)? Is that the same as (number)? (I think cimni3 should be dropped though) Not sure why length and width are specifically mentioned in the definition of cimni, since cimni2 can be any property, not just a spatial dimension. (6) I would have expected parbi1 (number), parbi2 (any type), parbi3 (any type). Isn't parbi1 the number of parbi2 divided by the number of parbi3? (7) Why is lerfu3 a "location"? Isn't it normally a sound/phoneme? And that mysterious "concept" shows up again. (8) ciska3 and tcidu3 "medium" is a role right, not a type? mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7b6dc1e68c544204fb335c06 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A few comments on some x3&#= 39;s that caught my attention:

(1) What would be an example of a scale in dukti3?=
I think dukti3 will usually be a property with k= au:

= =C2=A0 ko'a ko'e dukti lo ka ce'u jinvi ma kau

=C2=A0 ko'a ko'e dukti lo ka c= e'u cinse fi ma kau=C2=A0
(ignoring the= messiness of the "cinse" place structure)

=C2=A0 ko'a ko'e dukti lo ka ce= 9;u zvati lo mo kau mlana be lo klaji

<= /div>
=C2=A0 ko'a ko'e dukti lo ka ma kau= farna ce'u

=C2=A0 ko&#= 39;a ko'e dukti lo ka ce'u dikca fi ma kau

and so on. Are those scales?
=C2=A0=C2=A0
(2) You have "klani" backwards. x2 is the number,= x1 is the thing, as in all other measure words. "klani" is the g= eneric measure word.

=C2=A0 ko'a klani li ci lo ka xo kau da bruna ce'u

=C2=A0 ko'a klani= li pa pi mu lo ka ce'u citka lo xo kau plise=C2=A0

=C2=A0 ko'a klani li mu lo ka ce'u xo ro= i klama lo zdani be mi

and so on. So, can we say that scales are property+kau? If= so, then a lot more places should be marked as "scale", all the = comparatives for example.

(3) If lidn= e3 is something like a lerfu2, I don't think it's a plural:

=C2=A0 ko'= ;a lidne ko'e lo latmo selyle'u

(4) ckini1 = and ckini2 can be of any type. "ckini" is the two-place equivalen= t of "ckaji", they are completely general.

(5) Why is cimni3 (quantity)? Is that = the same as (number)? (I think cimni3 should be dropped though)
Not sure why length and width are specifically mention= ed in the definition of cimni, since cimni2 can be any property, not just a= spatial dimension.

(6) I would= have expected parbi1 (number), parbi2 (any type), parbi3 (any type). Isn&#= 39;t parbi1 the number of parbi2 divided by the number of parbi3?=C2=A0

(7) Why is lerfu3 a "location&quo= t;? Isn't it normally a sound/phoneme? And that mysterious "concep= t" shows up again.

(8) ciska3 and tcidu3 "medium" is a role right, not a type?
=

mu'o mi= 'e xorxes

--
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