Received: from mail-lb0-f191.google.com ([209.85.217.191]:65368) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WtAGe-0001fY-RB for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 23:38:27 -0700 Received: by mail-lb0-f191.google.com with SMTP id l4sf445566lbv.18 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 23:38:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5UcDCWwLobY24uoK8rpzGEAvFb50+k7wfC/b0DFSg08=; b=VPbQz2wj03xOxIb/2cxKzWM696wEGt30F32he8xUqHTYwdJI2lkOliEavWP1OX59QM Dg/GIfAMfykCVCs99+nw0RNuYkZ8m2/PH4Y/o6r71c9dJ271CFv2wKM6pA4ExAhHVZ0a sfGycN1CQzl2SCOz0Y2RnvbJ3lnhMTqAZfHRvGS7kCes6rrWOkDfRPQyEfI6qS6cat8n YYk2gmMzMcWV6xcHvgSXJ4SxWvpwdm/suWz9CTlQOqabOYJz6eOvCQcHJF/YJS3mvsFG XZ+SeqFz6YWOSbrEIL6F9bRBNgqB5C+gNbTtiMQHdhsdIwEICmFC/YQChKQ7XWQbAOQr JFrA== X-Received: by 10.180.188.73 with SMTP id fy9mr43469wic.10.1402123089025; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 23:38:09 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.98.7 with SMTP id ee7ls207995wib.22.gmail; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 23:38:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.14.138 with SMTP id p10mr2147645wic.2.1402123088111; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 23:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x229.google.com (mail-we0-x229.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c03::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x7si73062wiw.1.2014.06.06.23.38.08 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 06 Jun 2014 23:38:08 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c03::229; Received: by mail-we0-f169.google.com with SMTP id w61so964524wes.28 for ; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 23:38:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.240.33 with SMTP id vx1mr870395wjc.88.1402123087983; Fri, 06 Jun 2014 23:38:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Fri, 6 Jun 2014 23:38:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53903D84.90502@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 10:38:07 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c1b5f0973c0504fb39389c X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c1b5f0973c0504fb39389c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-06-07 0:33 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > > > On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 4:40 AM, Gleki Arxokuna > wrote: > >> >> 2014-06-06 4:05 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >> >>> >>> But I don't like this wording: >>> "x2 (object; by default the second place of which is the same as x1)" >>> >>> Objects don't have argument places >>> >> >> Imagine that the place structure required NU in cortu2. >> {mi cortu lo nu xance mi}. Although, I don't know if this behavior exist= s >> with cortu2 in any natlangs. >> > > Events don't have argument places either. Predicates have argument places= . > I understand what you mean, I just don't think your wording there was > correct. > > > I'm not sure about sevzi2 but I think it should also be x1 be default >>>> so that >>>> {mi catra lo sevzi} =3D {mi catra lo sevzi be mi}. >>>> >>> >>> This is something quite different, but in the definition of "sevzi" you >>> should be talking about the places of "sevzi", not the places of "catra= " or >>> any selbri in which "lo sevzi" could be used as an argument. >>> >> >> I propose "x1 is a self of x2 (x1 by default)". >> > > If x2 is x1 by default, then "sevzi" defaults to "du". I think you mean > the x1 of the main selbri in which "sevzi" is used as a description of an > argument, rather than the x1 of sevzi, which is the only one you can real= ly > mention in a definition of "sevzi" > I mean that sevzi2 coudld be {zu'i=3Dx1} by default (just like miter2 =3D 1= by default) whereas du2=3Dzo'e by default. > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c1b5f0973c0504fb39389c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



2014-06-07 0:33 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <= ;jjllambias@gmail= .com>:



On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 = at 4:40 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

2014-06-06 4:05 GMT+04= :00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

But I don't like this wording:
"x2 (object; by default the second place of which is the s= ame as x1)"

Objects don't have argument places

Imagine =C2=A0that the place structure required NU in cortu2.
{mi cortu lo nu xance mi}. Although, I don't know if this behavior exis= ts with cortu2 in any natlangs.

Events don't have argument places either. Predic= ates have argument places. I understand what you mean, I just don't thi= nk your wording there was correct.
=C2=A0=C2=A0

I'm not sure about sevzi2 but I think it should also be x1 be default s= o that=C2=A0
{mi catra lo sevzi} =3D {mi catra lo sevzi be mi}.

This is something quite diffe= rent, but in the definition of "sevzi" you should be talking abou= t the places of "sevzi", not the places of "catra" or a= ny selbri in which "lo sevzi" could be used as an argument.=C2=A0=

I propose "x1 is a self = of x2 (x1 by default)".
<= br>
If x2 is x1 by default, then "sevzi" defaults= to "du". I think you mean the x1 of the main selbri in which &qu= ot;sevzi" is used as a description of an argument, rather than the x1 = of sevzi, which is the only one you can really mention in a definition of &= quot;sevzi"

I mean that sevzi2 coudl= d be {zu'i=3Dx1} by default (just like miter2 =3D 1 by default) whereas= du2=3Dzo'e by default.


mu'o mi'e xorxes

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