Received: from mail-vc0-f184.google.com ([209.85.220.184]:50874) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WtLNE-0006IX-2k for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:29:59 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f184.google.com with SMTP id lf12sf956195vcb.11 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:29:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=HsW+Ek1NZakKHBW/PYuRzxiPf44x8TAfGuG28tV519U=; b=O0RtOmoYJ3dPw1fXB8eWmkktEi0My8xREGJu0/7oejN3d/R+iynlzIXbW33P1fG4Rl xeMwC4zekOSNM8w2+I8NV86CrWplSd6Qs5STufjI6wzU+sDQ32qdNlJvXNAj3ZEPZcYZ i1phx6cn5NUfxqTS4dHoNP7KFA5lASiCAsQ9Xsv9DB3/yLogRvCgU+yNQBDXxhfbhJWh 5cg7KykgrNqrPcW88jlpzW9o7mGAAURIgA+b0pYAAU0Kw0jHdMW0+BajlLV/YnjKIiUd xX4Yuwr2v8QB8EjWrPSlVZiad9BLqI6zzixXLraFmI7IIaHZRwCMYNOvua3j+Fpm9qJ9 3uWA== X-Received: by 10.50.47.72 with SMTP id b8mr74265ign.9.1402165781821; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:29:41 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.73.195 with SMTP id n3ls639737igv.40.canary; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:29:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.68.195.9 with SMTP id ia9mr4698850pbc.7.1402165781310; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x236.google.com (mail-ve0-x236.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l7si984364vda.3.2014.06.07.11.29.41 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::236; Received: by mail-ve0-x236.google.com with SMTP id sa20so4874579veb.41 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:29:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.53.5.162 with SMTP id cn2mr12164291vdd.13.1402165781108; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 11:29:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.170.73 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jun 2014 11:29:40 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53903D84.90502@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 15:29:40 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1133b4a44c9d0d04fb43292b X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a1133b4a44c9d0d04fb43292b Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 2:53 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > 2014-06-07 20:27 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > >> ... >> megdo >> kilto >> xecto >> dekto >> gradu >> decti >> centi >> milti >> mikri >> ... >> >> so its place structure should match the others. >> > > All of them changed to "x1 (text, located) is a million of x2 (same type > as x1) in length/width etc. x3 (property)" > and {gradu} moved to their semantic class. > x1 should be (any type), since all types can have quantifiable properties. I would also remove "length/width" since any quantifiable property can be used. As for ckilu, ckilu2 seems to be one of the few places >> > > Question: Few? Are there others? > > >> for properties that have no corresponding place for the thing with the >> property. >> > I seem to remember there were a couple in the official gimste, but I don't remember which. > Maybe "ckilu" is a relation beteen properties? >> >> lo ka ce'u mitre ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ce'u clani se la'u ma kau >> >> lo ka ce'u bunda ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ma kau junta ce'u >> >> lo ka ce'u snidu ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ma kau ditcu ce'u >> >> lo ka ce'u kelvo ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ce'u glare se la'u ma kau >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> > > Question: Now I wonder what uses can {si'o} have since it has just been > completely eliminated from the gimste. > None. > Question: can megdo1 be a property? > Yes, for example: "lo ka ce'u broda cu megdo lo ka ce'u brode kei lo ka ko'a xo kau roi zukte ce'u > Seems there are only the following types: located, property (that include= s > located), proposition, relation, sound, number, text, plural of other > types, ordered plural of other types, species, second place of x2 in junl= a. > How does property include located? Aren't properties abstract? Species and sound are rather roles and here for convenience (and might be > removed in future). > I don't think sound is a role, it's a subtype of "located". A sound is a sound whether it's the argument of some predicate or not, and it is located is space and time. Question: is "text" abstract or it is an object therefore a subtype of > "located"? > I'd say a subtype of located. > Question: may be remove junla3 so that {ti junla lo snidu [be zo'e]} =3D > "This clock measures seconds", {ti junla lo snidu be li pimu} =3D "This c= lock > measures seconds to the precision of 0.5 seconds"? > Of course. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a1133b4a44c9d0d04fb43292b Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 2:53 PM, Gleki Arxokuna &l= t;gleki.is.= my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
=
2014-06-07 20:27 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=AD= as <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
...
megdo
kilto
xecto
dekto
gradu
decti
centi
milti
mikri
...

so its place structure should match the others.

All of them chang= ed to "x1 (text, located) is a million of x2 (same type as x1) in leng= th/width etc. x3 (property)"
and {gradu} moved to their semantic class.

x1 should be (any type), since all types can ha= ve quantifiable properties. I would also remove "length/width" si= nce any quantifiable property can be used. =C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0

=
As for ckilu, ckilu2 seems to be one of the few places

Question: Few? Are there others?= =C2=A0
<= div> =C2=A0
for properties that have no corresponding place for the thing with th= e property.

I seem to remember there were a couple in th= e official gimste, but I don't remember which.
=C2=A0
Maybe "ckilu" is a relation beteen properties?

lo ka ce'u mitre ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ce'u cla= ni se la'u ma kau

lo ka ce'u bunda ma kau = cu ckilu lo ka ma kau junta ce'u

lo ka ce'= u snidu ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ma kau ditcu ce'u

lo ka ce'u kelvo ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ce'u gla= re se la'u ma kau

mu'o mi'e xorxe= s

Question: Now I = wonder what uses can {si'o} have since it has just been completely elim= inated from the gimste.=C2=A0

None.
= =C2=A0
Question: can megdo1 be a property?
<= /blockquote>

Yes, for example: "lo ka ce'u brod= a cu megdo lo ka ce'u brode kei lo ka ko'a xo kau roi zukte ce'= u
=C2=A0
Seems there are only = the following types: located, property (that includes located), proposition= , relation, sound, number, text, plural of other types, ordered plural of o= ther types, species, second place of x2 in junla.

How does property = include located? Aren't properties abstract? =C2=A0

Species and sound are rather roles and here for convenience (and might be = removed in future).

=
I don't think sound is a role, it's a subtype of "located"= ;. A sound is a sound whether it's the argument of some predicate or no= t, and it is located is space and time.

Question: is "text" abstract or it is an object therefore a subt= ype of "located"?
I'd say a subtype of located.
=C2=A0
Question: may be remove junla3 so that {ti junla lo snidu [be zo= 'e]} =3D "This clock measures seconds",=C2=A0{ti junla lo sni= du be li pimu} =3D "This clock measures seconds to the precision of 0.= 5 seconds"?

Of course.=C2=A0

mu'o mi'e xorxes

=

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