Received: from mail-yk0-f185.google.com ([209.85.160.185]:40534) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WtOYg-0001Qw-CU for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:54:00 -0700 Received: by mail-yk0-f185.google.com with SMTP id 142sf168692ykq.2 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:53:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=SWf1jtc3/H8YBwm40q0MjAQ2SltzWS6BJB1Xehi38sg=; b=uVXQ0Sj4G0hq9Nb0cPEN+FgVMM+RCDaGTEidhZIn3IIa7FbF1V963oPTbI5oLTWrG+ WtOGPfGso1rtnsF1hsvym0WFGTvawy41Gg3JN67vRv7InKoqov76yvZ6J5xFS1TmRb0j c4syVGOYw4n55EtBk27ljF4VsALu15QSQaQ95FUs9avETY0PzYeZlDhS0hlEMmbl6PJi tFFNpDxSvzgvMPvldttn7dVgpb17WT/8aHbsPNQaJ9yzHnjeUMoytoPwmdH83PvMILP9 qoZHjpUd5dRdmMyPBl0LBygrMJ8VZzSRZMVs9qH9drLElYKBIPuoKMHSdJXRZj/Bax6h 6x2Q== X-Received: by 10.182.125.67 with SMTP id mo3mr1044obb.26.1402178024205; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:53:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.226.231 with SMTP id rv7ls569685obc.79.gmail; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:53:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.249.115 with SMTP id yt19mr8385911obc.25.1402178023555; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x233.google.com (mail-vc0-x233.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c03::233]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id xn6si1004217vdc.2.2014.06.07.14.53.43 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::233 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c03::233; Received: by mail-vc0-f179.google.com with SMTP id id10so3031700vcb.24 for ; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:53:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.221.42.135 with SMTP id ty7mr15720131vcb.14.1402178023443; Sat, 07 Jun 2014 14:53:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.170.73 with HTTP; Sat, 7 Jun 2014 14:53:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53903D84.90502@gmx.de> Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 18:53:43 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::233 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11339974ffcfa004fb460232 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11339974ffcfa004fb460232 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 There are very few predicates with types "xN (property of xM)" with M > N: makfa x1 (property of x3) is magic or supernatural to x2 performed by x3 That's the only one where the property skips a place. I don't think x1 needs to be a property of x3 though, couldn't we say: lo nu lo ractu cu canci cu makfa lo verba la djan I think makfa1 could be something that x3 makes happen, not necessarily something in which x3 takes a part. vamjix1 (property of x2) is what x2 is worth of to x3 for use x4 (property of x2) This one I think is wrong. vamji1 is not a property of x2, it is something that x3 is willing to give up or endure in exchange for obtaining or keeping x2. kralix1 (property of x2) is a legal/moral entitlement of individual x2 in legal system x3 (located)mardex1 (property of x2) are the ethices of performer x2 about situation x3 (located)cfilax1 (property of x2) is a flaw or defect in x2 causing x3 (located)jinzix1 (property of x2) is an innate or natural property of x2kampux1 (property of x2) is common among x2stecix1 (property of x3) is specific or particular to member x2 among x3tengux1 (property of x2) is a texture of x2jibrix1 (property of x2) is a job of person x2frilix1 (property of x2) is easy for x2 steci3 should be "property of x2". These seem fine, although they could have been defined in reverse order for the most part. Here we seem to be missing some though: nandu/tcaci/snuti/cimde/vrusi?/tarmi? tseli2 says (property of x2) instead of (property of x1). siskux1 searches for x2 (property of x3) among x3 I don't agree with that one, I think sisku2 should be an object not a property. muplix1 (any type) is an example of x2 (property of x3) among x3fadnix1 (any type) is ordinary in x2 (property of x3) among x3trajix1 (any type) is superlative in x2 (property of x3) among x3cnanox1 (any type) is an average in x2 (property of x3) among x3rircix1 (any type) is rare or unusual in x2 (property of x3) among x3 These should all have x2 (property of x1) cpedux1 requests or asks for x2 (property of x3) from x3 in manner x4 (property of x1)stidix1 suggests x2 (property of x3) to x3javnix1 (located) is a rule mandating x2 (property of x3) in x3 Shouldn't flalu follow the pattern of javni? I think those are all. There are no properties in x3 or x4 that send to a later place. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11339974ffcfa004fb460232 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

There are very few predicates with typ= es "xN (property of xM)" with M > N:

= =
makfa x1 (property of x3) is magic or supernatural to x2 performed by x3

That's the only one where the prope= rty skips a place. I don't think x1 needs to be a property of x3 though= , couldn't we say:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0lo nu lo ractu cu canci cu makfa lo verba = la djan

I think makfa1 could be something that x3 = makes happen, not necessarily something in which x3 takes a part.

vamjix1 (property of x2) is what x2 is worth of to x3 = for use x4 (property of x2)

This one I think is wrong. vamji1 is no= t a property of x2, it is something that x3 is willing to give up or endure= in exchange for obtaining or keeping x2.


kralix1 (property of x2) is a legal/moral entitlement = of individual x2 in legal system x3 (located)
mardex1 (property of x2)= are the ethices of performer x2 about situation x3 (located)
cfilax1 (property of x2)= is a flaw or defect in x2 causing x3 (located)
jinzix1 (property of x2)= is an innate or natural property of x2
kampux1 (property of x2)= is common among x2
stecix1 (property of x3)= is specific or particular to member x2 among x3
tengux1 (property of x2)= is a texture of x2
jibrix1 (property of x2)= is a job of person x2
frilix1 (property of x2= ) is easy for x2

steci3 should be "prope= rty of x2". These seem fine, although they could have been defined in = reverse order for the most part. Here we seem to be missing some though: na= ndu/tcaci/snuti/cimde/vrusi?/tarmi?

tseli2 says (property of x2) instead of (property of x1= ).

sisku x1 searches for x2 (property of x3) among x3
<= br>
I don't agree with that one, I think sisku2 should be an = object not a property.

<= /tbody>
mupli x1 (any type) is an example of x2 (property of x3) among x3
fadni x1 (any type) is ordinary in x2 (property of x3) among x3
traji x1 (any type) is superlative in x2 (property of x3) among x3
cnano x1 (any type) is an average in x2 (property of x3) among x3
rirci x1 (any type) is rare or unusual in x2 (property of x3) among x3

These should all have x2 (property of x1)

javni
cpedu x1 requests or asks for x2 (property of x3) from x3 in manner x4 (property = of x1)
stidi x1 suggests x2 (property of x3) to x3
x1 (located) is a rule mandating x2 (property of x3) in x3

Shouldn't flalu= follow the pattern of javni?

I think those are all. There are n= o properties in x3 or x4 that send to a later place.=C2=A0

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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