Received: from mail-wi0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]:38791) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WtY0D-0005H8-2V for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 08 Jun 2014 00:58:59 -0700 Received: by mail-wi0-f189.google.com with SMTP id cc10sf315523wib.26 for ; Sun, 08 Jun 2014 00:58:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=s364XEz2EyTz+tqlERp8zEoVBpPyyoHPpt9+6GUt59M=; b=x4ssxs27WfOfPcpcVgbIRCGHUPJsi8xL66UZ7zqXOA7eXeTYtLFtVQgtxnPqc6iUUT JLSJV0SzPX2vF9n5ppSoksTzp+UOfTD9pr1EeMpaYWv13CE+v2w8s/pLHg7IG9AwMd6/ DjQWq3MvDmN4QAyLEESAxBbhmJnV0NsWVo/j4QDGjiQDZBcau/24VbjGX9Baai+Fuug+ I4in+Ua/7n7cQ2E/nOqjUM7N4GhPfKC4IEdWygIgI1VozTKC74ABXcUXFiyNV8jYNBTc THgsvkmspSmoNOnjfty70utMqD89p71dUi/9H9TySk29zZUZKLgtioBVH0pOx+buQVzk XAhQ== X-Received: by 10.180.89.231 with SMTP id br7mr54746wib.8.1402214325814; Sun, 08 Jun 2014 00:58:45 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.99.135 with SMTP id eq7ls299469wib.26.canary; Sun, 08 Jun 2014 00:58:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.88.169 with SMTP id bh9mr2641252wib.5.1402214325325; Sun, 08 Jun 2014 00:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x22f.google.com (mail-wg0-x22f.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gz10si337189wib.0.2014.06.08.00.58.45 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 08 Jun 2014 00:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f; Received: by mail-wg0-f47.google.com with SMTP id k14so3539427wgh.6 for ; Sun, 08 Jun 2014 00:58:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.194.186.210 with SMTP id fm18mr20901808wjc.67.1402214325207; Sun, 08 Jun 2014 00:58:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Sun, 8 Jun 2014 00:58:45 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53903D84.90502@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 11:58:45 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f234449c0c97204fb4e7694 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --e89a8f234449c0c97204fb4e7694 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-06-07 22:29 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > > > On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 2:53 PM, Gleki Arxokuna > wrote: > >> >> 2014-06-07 20:27 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : >> >>> ... >>> megdo >>> kilto >>> xecto >>> dekto >>> gradu >>> decti >>> centi >>> milti >>> mikri >>> ... >>> >>> so its place structure should match the others. >>> >> >> All of them changed to "x1 (text, located) is a million of x2 (same type >> as x1) in length/width etc. x3 (property)" >> and {gradu} moved to their semantic class. >> > > x1 should be (any type), since all types can have quantifiable properties= . > I would also remove "length/width" since any quantifiable property can be > used. > Yes, fxd. since you agree that it can be a property too. > > > As for ckilu, ckilu2 seems to be one of the few places >>> >> >> Question: Few? Are there others? >> > >> >>> for properties that have no corresponding place for the thing with the >>> property. >>> >> > I seem to remember there were a couple in the official gimste, but I don'= t > remember which. > > >> Maybe "ckilu" is a relation beteen properties? >>> >>> lo ka ce'u mitre ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ce'u clani se la'u ma kau >>> >>> lo ka ce'u bunda ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ma kau junta ce'u >>> >>> lo ka ce'u snidu ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ma kau ditcu ce'u >>> >>> lo ka ce'u kelvo ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ce'u glare se la'u ma kau >>> >>> mu'o mi'e xorxes >>> >> >> Question: Now I wonder what uses can {si'o} have since it has just been >> completely eliminated from the gimste. >> > > None. > > >> Question: can megdo1 be a property? >> > > Yes, for example: "lo ka ce'u broda cu megdo lo ka ce'u brode kei lo ka > ko'a xo kau roi zukte ce'u > > >> Seems there are only the following types: located, property (that >> includes located), proposition, relation, sound, number, text, plural of >> other types, ordered plural of other types, species, second place of x2 = in >> junla. >> > > How does property include located? Aren't properties abstract? > Explained in an earlier message since "located" includes both objects and events (the latter are NU). > > Species and sound are rather roles and here for convenience (and might be >> removed in future). >> > > I don't think sound is a role, it's a subtype of "located". A sound is a > sound whether it's the argument of some predicate or not, and it is locat= ed > is space and time. > > Question: is "text" abstract or it is an object therefore a subtype of >> "located"? >> > > I'd say a subtype of located. > > >> Question: may be remove junla3 so that {ti junla lo snidu [be zo'e]} = =3D >> "This clock measures seconds", {ti junla lo snidu be li pimu} =3D "This = clock >> measures seconds to the precision of 0.5 seconds"? >> > > Of course. > done. an example added. > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --e89a8f234449c0c97204fb4e7694 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



2014-06-07 22:29 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas &l= t;jjllambias@gmai= l.com>:



On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 = at 2:53 PM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:

2014-06-07 20:27 GMT+0= 4:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:
...
megdo
kilto
xecto
dekto
gradu
decti
centi
milti
mikri
...

so its place structure should match the others.

All of them changed to "x1 (text, located) is a million of x2 (sa= me type as x1) in length/width etc. x3 (property)"
and {gradu} moved to their semantic class.

x1 should be (any type), since all types = can have quantifiable properties. I would also remove "length/width&qu= ot; since any quantifiable property can be used. =C2=A0=C2=A0

Yes, fxd. since you agre= e that it can be a property too.
=C2=A0
=C2=A0

As for ckilu, ckilu2 seems to be one of the few places

Question: Few? Are there others?= =C2=A0
=C2=A0
for properties that have no corresponding place for the thing with th= e property.

I seem to remember there were a couple= in the official gimste, but I don't remember which.
=C2=A0
Maybe "ckilu" is a relation beteen properties?

lo ka ce'u mitre ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ce'u cla= ni se la'u ma kau

lo ka ce'u bunda ma kau = cu ckilu lo ka ma kau junta ce'u

lo ka ce'= u snidu ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ma kau ditcu ce'u

lo ka ce'u kelvo ma kau cu ckilu lo ka ce'u gla= re se la'u ma kau

mu'o mi'e xorxe= s

Question: Now I = wonder what uses can {si'o} have since it has just been completely elim= inated from the gimste.=C2=A0

None.
<= div class=3D"">
=C2=A0
Question: can megdo1 be a property?
<= /blockquote>

Yes, for example: "lo ka ce'= u broda cu megdo lo ka ce'u brode kei lo ka ko'a xo kau roi zukte c= e'u
=C2=A0
Seems there are only = the following types: located, property (that includes located), proposition= , relation, sound, number, text, plural of other types, ordered plural of o= ther types, species, second place of x2 in junla.

How does pro= perty include located? Aren't properties abstract?

Explained in an earlier message since &= quot;located" includes both objects and events (the latter are NU).

=C2=A0

Species and sound are rather roles and here for convenience (and might be = removed in future).

=
I don't think sound is a role, it's a subtype of "located"= ;. A sound is a sound whether it's the argument of some predicate or no= t, and it is located is space and time.

Question: is "text" abstract or it is an object therefore a subt= ype of "located"?
I'd say a subtype of located.
=C2=A0
Question: may be remove junla3 so that {ti junla lo snidu [be zo= 'e]} =3D "This clock measures seconds",=C2=A0{ti junla lo sni= du be li pimu} =3D "This clock measures seconds to the precision of 0.= 5 seconds"?

Of course.=C2=A0

done. an example add= ed.


mu'o mi'e xorxes

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--
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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
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