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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 18:46:02 -0300
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Possession/transfer/exchange predicates
From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= <jjllambias@gmail.com>
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On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 3:21 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>>
>> canja/cerda/cirko/cnemu/dirba/dunda/friti/jdima/jerna/jinga/kargu/pleji/prali/vamji/vecnu
>>
>> There are other words that involve possession/transfer/exchange but for
>> which the gismu list doesn't say anything explicitly about "sumti-raising",
>> for example:
>> claxu/pindi/ricfu/punji/sabji/jmina/dejni/jarco/lebna/cpacu/jbera/cuxna/vimcu/cpedu/mipri/sisku/sarji
>> /cupra/dirce/ferti/xaksu/tisna/daspo/ralte
>>
>> It's a non-problem for me to correct {dunda}. The main obstacle for me is
> that there might be much more than those 15 brivla that would allow
> "object" => "property" change.
>

Indeed. I already listed 24 more.

In my version of gimste all those places are marked as "located" and ... in
> fact the majority of places are "located" throughout the gimste.
>

 It is to be expected that the majority of places will be first and
foremost for concrete objects. I think the biggest problem will be for
those who are very anti-metaphor, or anti-unmarked metaphor, because they
need to know exactly when a place admits a property in a literal sense and
when it doesn't. For example, if I say "lo ka ce'u jbopre cu pagbu mi", is
that literal or metaphoric? What about "lo ka ce'u senpi cu pagbu lo ka
ce'u remna"? The official gismu list doesn't specify any types for "pagbu".
What about "lo ka ce'u jbopre cu panlo mi"?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On Mon, Jun 9, 2014 at 3:21 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gleki.is.my.name@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color=
:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div>canja/cerda/cirko/cnemu/dirba/dunda/friti/j=
dima/jerna/jinga/kargu/pleji/prali/vamji/vecnu<div><br></div><div><span sty=
le=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);white-space:pre-wrap">There are other words that inv=
olve possession/transfer/exchange but for which the gismu list doesn&#39;t =
say anything explicitly about &quot;sumti-raising&quot;, for example: claxu=
/pindi/ricfu/punji/sabji/jmina/dejni/jarco/lebna/cpacu/jbera/cuxna/vimcu/cp=
edu/mipri/sisku/sarji</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);white-space:pre=
-wrap">/cupra/dirce/ferti/xaksu/tisna/daspo/ralte</span></div>


<div><br></div></div></blockquote></div><div>It&#39;s a non-problem for me =
to correct {dunda}. The main obstacle for me is that there might be much mo=
re than those 15 brivla that would allow &quot;object&quot; =3D&gt; &quot;p=
roperty&quot; change.</div>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Indeed. I already listed=
 24 more.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr">
<div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div> In my version o=
f gimste all those places are marked as &quot;located&quot; and ... in fact=
 the majority of places are &quot;located&quot; throughout the gimste.</div=
>
</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>=C2=A0It is to be expect=
ed that the majority of places will be first and foremost for concrete obje=
cts. I think the biggest problem will be for those who are very anti-metaph=
or, or anti-unmarked metaphor, because they need to know exactly when a pla=
ce admits a property in a literal sense and when it doesn&#39;t. For exampl=
e, if I say &quot;lo ka ce&#39;u jbopre cu pagbu mi&quot;, is that literal =
or metaphoric? What about &quot;lo ka ce&#39;u senpi cu pagbu lo ka ce&#39;=
u remna&quot;? The official gismu list doesn&#39;t specify any types for &q=
uot;pagbu&quot;. What about &quot;lo ka ce&#39;u jbopre cu panlo mi&quot;?=
=C2=A0</div>
<div><br></div><div>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e xorxes</div><div><br></div></div></di=
v></div>

<p></p>

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