Received: from mail-pa0-f59.google.com ([209.85.220.59]:53809) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WuTnG-0000Xh-AS for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:41:28 -0700 Received: by mail-pa0-f59.google.com with SMTP id hz1sf327972pad.24 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:41:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=E6rVexcAx/oYQ1LkwKm9mBcwpybriafvUb7PMYq0DyU=; b=jHx9bEaxbjFhWkfZLxGe2w40Cv5+jVuTA37StBsxyHMZ2Ugl/eayUKZYAGtV6lmpaB xT7rO127MSk8FK1wom6nrgUZWHHiwIUa805qy0/zYDWdqyT056yYN+DxkpQvYAjg9an3 ylfkqCi9UMT9BF767/I+VfLe0FBgx8nphdJow9sbKn4j7PRdaAO12LP4r1K2Uv920m5j +8QusNuetdw524thxvgUmkgqusZ8/KQFzHyvaXfqCbAP2VzN7ySh+L7oQyEvgoQd6rQi Y28qblMJzbVAQRDl4K02gbj0i6fSho4KDcAp1IHfQ6Pkkz9rPm/1wKTv7DgaQCxGLPsh wRGA== X-Received: by 10.182.78.70 with SMTP id z6mr31196obw.36.1402436476153; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:41:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.182.42.195 with SMTP id q3ls1184886obl.97.gmail; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:41:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.182.128.166 with SMTP id np6mr1423861obb.16.1402436475506; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x235.google.com (mail-ve0-x235.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id l7si1442104vda.3.2014.06.10.14.41.15 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235; Received: by mail-ve0-f181.google.com with SMTP id db11so3676141veb.40 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:41:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.58.211.133 with SMTP id nc5mr1446282vec.28.1402436475131; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:41:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.170.73 with HTTP; Tue, 10 Jun 2014 14:41:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 18:41:15 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Possession/transfer/exchange predicates From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::235 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=047d7bdc8710ebaa4904fb822fbf X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --047d7bdc8710ebaa4904fb822fbf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 5:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > >> canja/cerda/cirko/cnemu/dirba/dunda/friti/jdima >> > > not sure what jdima1 should connect to. > the price of getting (becoming a possesor of) an apple or the price of > giving an apple (giving a possesion)? > x1 is what x3 must give up or endure in order to get x2 from x4. If it's a property, it should be a property of x3. x2 could also be a property of x3. /jerna/jinga/kargu >> > kargu1 - property of x2??? > Right. For example "lo ka melbi cu kargu ko'a". /pleji >> > > pleji4=property of pleji3 > A case could be made for it being a property of x1, but maybe x3 wins just because it's closer. /prali/vamji >> > > i forgot how to use vamji4 > lo te vamji ka'e pilno lo se vamji lo ve vamji > If we search for "sumti-raising" we get those 15 plus xajmi and djica. >> > not sure why xajmi1 should be a property of x2. > xajmi1 probably shouldn't be a property. . Still it is possible of course. {lo ka xalbebna cu xajmi mi} > But do we need to specify it in the definition? What else can ce'u in > xajmi1 refer to if not to x2 (this of course make xajmi3 unnecessary)? > xajmi3 is a property of xajmi1. There are several words with this place structure pattern: mansa/vajni/cfipu/cizra/fange/zdile/trina/melbi/cnino/slabu/dicra/zunti/prali and quite a few others that could have been in that class as well but aren't: fanza/spaji/cinri/misno/xamgu?/xlali?/pluka?/rigni? mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --047d7bdc8710ebaa4904fb822fbf Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

= On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 5:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name= @gmail.com> wrote:
=

canja/cerda/cirko/cnemu/dirba/dunda/friti/j= dima

not sure what jdima1 shoul= d connect to.
the price of getting (becoming a possesor of) an ap= ple or the price of giving an apple (giving a possesion)?

x1 is what x3 must give = up or endure in order to get x2 from x4. If it's a property, it should = be a property of x3.
x2 could also be a property of x3.

/jerna/jinga/kargu
kargu1 - property of x2???
Right. For example "lo ka melbi cu kargu ko'a". = =C2=A0

/pleji

pleji4=3Dprop= erty of pleji3

A case could be made for it being a property of x1, but maybe x3 win= s just because it's closer.

/prali/vamji

i forgo= t how to use vamji4

lo te vamji ka'e pilno lo se vamji lo ve vamji
=C2=A0
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
If we search for "sumti-raising" we get those 15 plus xajmi and = djica.
not sure why xajmi1 should= be a property of x2.

=C2=A0xajmi1 probably sh= ouldn't be a property. . =C2=A0

Still it is possible of course. {lo ka xalbebna cu xajmi mi}
But= do we need to specify it in the definition? What else can ce'u in xajm= i1 refer to if not to x2 (this of course make xajmi3 unnecessary)?

xajmi3 is a property of = xajmi1. There are several words with this place structure pattern: mansa/va= jni/cfipu/cizra/fange/zdile/trina/melbi/cnino/slabu/dicra/zunti/prali

and quite a few others that could have been in that cla= ss as well but aren't: fanza/spaji/cinri/misno/xamgu?/xlali?/pluka?/rig= ni?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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