Received: from mail-la0-f63.google.com ([209.85.215.63]:64459) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WuchM-00040K-OB for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:12:03 -0700 Received: by mail-la0-f63.google.com with SMTP id b8sf962520lan.28 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:11:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hDYhZKz9THGcP6fpC9NuJef9VNiHCkbzgfz7YI1WqEY=; b=IKhC1rtdv8uRlWles8AwecNUryOMeWqnDunM753IagNq6JmeCkqsxsVDqYgf/DbxSX hU3edNbj+PRIX8uvY3K0CZTn2eJFXu8baGGn52l60WZ15CVuBDUOSHhoOQTroLbVOYmc HQsrRvELb3j70rua8kEGVJ6BWkxyWPAr2sRFPj68rYUPmre9Tkd5DAH4W48kMY9+vGnv GVNVsajCQkC6+OCueEuh77yxIdBrDRzJNSuY8paYeZ7m8z7ONXdrgwdasYGJir+BeNJ/ 8aaRGlONtwWC2LdOrJGyViBmw7pcOohPjPPbnAbHgHiqyIDQsIJ1bgixe6isUoZi7lI7 h/SQ== X-Received: by 10.180.106.66 with SMTP id gs2mr3493wib.12.1402470704737; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:11:44 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.80.9 with SMTP id n9ls207754wix.40.gmail; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:11:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.228.107 with SMTP id sh11mr3798418wic.6.1402470703826; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x22d.google.com (mail-we0-x22d.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c03::22d]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id gc5si379009wic.1.2014.06.11.00.11.43 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c03::22d; Received: by mail-we0-f173.google.com with SMTP id t60so1712274wes.18 for ; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:11:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.211.146 with SMTP id nc18mr46543776wic.53.1402470703688; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:11:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Wed, 11 Jun 2014 00:11:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:11:43 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Possession/transfer/exchange predicates From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c3890a19f4c504fb8a28e2 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c3890a19f4c504fb8a28e2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2014-06-11 1:41 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 5:45 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> canja/cerda/cirko/cnemu/dirba/dunda/friti/jdima >>> >> >> not sure what jdima1 should connect to. >> the price of getting (becoming a possesor of) an apple or the price of >> giving an apple (giving a possesion)? >> > > x1 is what x3 must give up or endure in order to get x2 from x4. If it's = a > property, it should be a property of x3. > x2 could also be a property of x3. > > /jerna/jinga/kargu >>> >> kargu1 - property of x2??? >> > > Right. For example "lo ka melbi cu kargu ko'a". > > /pleji >>> >> >> pleji4=3Dproperty of pleji3 >> > > A case could be made for it being a property of x1, but maybe x3 wins jus= t > because it's closer. > > /prali/vamji >>> >> >> i forgot how to use vamji4 >> > > lo te vamji ka'e pilno lo se vamji lo ve vamji > I guess vamji4 has two ce'u linking to x2 and x3? > >> If we search for "sumti-raising" we get those 15 plus xajmi and djica. >>> >> not sure why xajmi1 should be a property of x2. >> > > xajmi1 probably shouldn't be a property. . > > Still it is possible of course. {lo ka xalbebna cu xajmi mi} >> But do we need to specify it in the definition? What else can ce'u in >> xajmi1 refer to if not to x2 (this of course make xajmi3 unnecessary)? >> > > xajmi3 is a property of xajmi1. There are several words with this place > structure pattern: > mansa/vajni/cfipu/cizra/fange/zdile/trina/melbi/cnino/slabu/dicra/zunti/p= rali > All of them are assigned "klesi3=3DSplit property" class. > > and quite a few others that could have been in that class as well but > aren't: fanza/spaji/cinri/misno/xamgu?/xlali?/pluka?/rigni? > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c3890a19f4c504fb8a28e2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



2014-06-11 1:41 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <= ;jjllambias@gmail= .com>:
=
On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 5:45= AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wr= ote:
=

canja/cerda/cirko/cnemu/dirba/dunda/friti/j= dima

not sure what jdima1 shoul= d connect to.
the price of getting (becoming a possesor of) an ap= ple or the price of giving an apple (giving a possesion)?

x1 is what x3 must= give up or endure in order to get x2 from x4. If it's a property, it s= hould be a property of x3.
x2 could also be a property of x3.

/jerna/jinga/kargu
kargu1 - property of x2???
Right. For example "lo ka melbi cu kargu ko'a&q= uot;. =C2=A0

/pleji

pleji4=3Dprop= erty of pleji3

A case could be made for it being a property of x1, but maybe x3 win= s just because it's closer.

/prali/vamji

i forgo= t how to use vamji4

lo te vamji ka'e pilno lo se vamji lo ve vamji

I guess vamji4 has two ce'u link= ing to x2 =C2=A0and x3?

=
= =C2=A0
If we search for "sumti-raising" we get those 15 plus xajmi and = djica.
not sure why xajmi1 should= be a property of x2.

=C2=A0xajmi1 proba= bly shouldn't be a property. . =C2=A0

Still it is possible of course. {lo ka xalbebna cu xajmi mi}
But= do we need to specify it in the definition? What else can ce'u in xajm= i1 refer to if not to x2 (this of course make xajmi3 unnecessary)?

xajmi3 is a proper= ty of xajmi1. There are several words with this place structure pattern: ma= nsa/vajni/cfipu/cizra/fange/zdile/trina/melbi/cnino/slabu/dicra/zunti/prali=

All of them are assigned= "klesi3=3DSplit property" class.=C2=A0

and quite a few others that could have been in that cla= ss as well but aren't: fanza/spaji/cinri/misno/xamgu?/xlali?/pluka?/rig= ni?

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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