Received: from mail-wi0-f188.google.com ([209.85.212.188]:44053) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Ww5sV-0003nz-H8 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 01:33:33 -0700 Received: by mail-wi0-f188.google.com with SMTP id e4sf219603wiv.15 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 01:33:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=e64sGFwwAd1WbHYICR2gDUE7SRuRJrerMlP2pQJJ7KI=; b=dkSl+rzWIts1cIwF0atBMid33NMXnweJFM0mESRTX4dORUyVfY7rG7b2YfIsE83+A6 J4WRVsFaLvZRM3qj8ImcWLgwcoUWSQp5ol6HSicPvcns8K7mzQo8EXf7/5aiVp9rJ2HR gR+Sg0mPwcuIPT+smCP45P/NWzf5pKzagGKB9DkgvvpwBbNvISIfrmA/qXpgUasdBGA1 8wBri9wskPB2uAtIjSHU8oIiwKLY758DIh1WmmJYifYuk+IjGuWYODk5yzA7bBe1zJgd Q+Esbz0GhI/SN6gFKXFQdunXwnKZcinnMrAsY8LdE517pagFsPKQqeT+92WLxGswHFr9 BFhw== X-Received: by 10.180.8.231 with SMTP id u7mr2005wia.10.1402821200586; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 01:33:20 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.180.79.232 with SMTP id m8ls124363wix.38.canary; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 01:33:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.13.99 with SMTP id g3mr1036123wic.1.1402821200143; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 01:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wg0-x232.google.com (mail-wg0-x232.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c00::232]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x7si302381wiw.1.2014.06.15.01.33.20 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 15 Jun 2014 01:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c00::232; Received: by mail-wg0-x232.google.com with SMTP id x13so4235146wgg.33 for ; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 01:33:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.73.169 with SMTP id m9mr17616713wiv.53.1402821200067; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 01:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.25.163 with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jun 2014 01:33:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <53903D84.90502@gmx.de> Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 12:33:19 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c00::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d043c7e1e50433904fbdbc392 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --f46d043c7e1e50433904fbdbc392 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Most important grammar words are now in "klesi B=3DGrammar word". I removed most places from them. In order to express "language" places I added {uenzi}=3D"x1 is a text in language x2" (etymology: Chinese "w=C3=A9n= z=C3=AC") since {bangu3} has to be specially treated to be converted into "text". 2014-06-08 21:46 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas : > > On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Gleki Arxokuna < > gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> .i mi pleji lo nu mi lumci lo kumfa vau fo lo nu do ctigau mi >> .i mi pleji lo ka lumci lo kumfa vau do lo ka do ctigau mi >> >> .i mi pleji lo sicni do lo plise >> >> Which solutions are correct? >> > > In my opinion, the first and third are definitely correct, and the second > (I think you meant "lo ka [ce'u] ctigau mi") is probably correct but > requires some justification, which I'm planning to write some more on. > > tanru and gismu are both predicates, their meaning is always a relation. >>> valsi are more general in what meanings they can have, the meaning of s= ome >>> valsi (gismu, lujvo, fu'ivla i.e. all brivla) is a relation, but the >>> meaning of most cmavo is not a relation. >>> >> >> Can u give an example of gismu, tanru with all place filled? >> > > I'm not advocating these by any means, I think grammar words are > particularly messy and could do with some unbloating, but this is how I > read the current definitions: > > zo nelci cu gismu lo ka ce'u ce'u nelci kei lo nelci ce'o lo se nelci zoi > ke nel ke jo'u zoi ke nei ke jo'u zoi ke nelcy ke jo'u zoi ke nelci ke > > lo'u mutce nelci le'u cu tanru zo mutce zo nelci lo ka ce'u xi pa mutce l= o > ka ce'u xi pa nelci ce'u xi re kei kei lu mi na mutce nelci lo tersu'i > stura be zo tanru li'u > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --f46d043c7e1e50433904fbdbc392 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Most important grammar words are now in "klesi B=3DGr= ammar word".

I removed most places from them. In or= der to express "language" places I added {uenzi}=3D"x1 is a = text in language x2" (etymology: Chinese "w=C3=A9nz=C3=AC") = since {bangu3} has to be specially treated to be converted into "text&= quot;.


2014-06= -08 21:46 GMT+04:00 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>:

=
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 11:42 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
=

.i mi pleji lo nu= mi lumci lo kumfa vau fo lo nu do ctigau mi
.i mi pleji lo ka lumci lo kumfa vau do lo ka do ctigau mi
<= br>
.i mi pleji lo sicni do lo plise

Whi= ch solutions are correct?

In my opinion, the first and third are definitely correct,= and the second (I think you meant "lo ka [ce'u] ctigau mi") = is probably correct but requires some justification, which I'm planning= to write some more on.

tanru and gismu are both predicates, their meaning is always a relation. v= alsi are more general in what meanings they can have, the meaning of some v= alsi (gismu, lujvo, fu'ivla i.e. all brivla) is a relation, but the mea= ning of most cmavo is not a relation.

Can u give an exam= ple of gismu, tanru with =C2=A0all place filled?

I'm not advocating these by any mea= ns, I think grammar words are particularly messy and could do with some unb= loating, but this is how I read the current definitions:

zo nelci cu gismu lo ka ce'u ce'u nelci kei lo = nelci ce'o lo se nelci zoi ke nel ke jo'u zoi ke nei ke jo'u zo= i ke nelcy ke jo'u zoi ke nelci ke

lo'u mu= tce nelci le'u cu tanru zo mutce zo nelci lo ka ce'u xi pa mutce lo= ka ce'u xi pa nelci ce'u xi re kei kei lu mi na mutce nelci lo ter= su'i stura be zo tanru li'u

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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