Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 20:43:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Riley Martinez-Lynch <shunpiker@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Does the lojban language include the empty string?
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xorxes wrote:

Is the empty string (=CE=B5) really intended to be included in the lojban=
=20
>> language, or is this a quirk of the machine grammar implementations?
>>
> It was done on purpose. It would be trivial to change the grammar to=20
> disallow it. If we disallow it, however, would we also have to consider t=
he=20
> text "valsi si" ungrammatical? =20
>

It makes sense that you would want to keep that grammatical.

 If it is included, as the parsers indicate, null lojban texts are to be=20
> found everywhere that you can't parse the beginning of a non-null lojban=
=20
> text.
>
>> I'm not sure I follow. The grammar can only parse one text at a time, it=
=20
>> can't parse a string of texts, so I'm not sure I see what the problem is=
.
>>
> =20
What I mean is that because the empty string is grammatical, a text will be=
=20
discovered for any input, whether or not the input is grammatical and can=
=20
be consumed. This is easy enough to correct for. What's proving to be a=20
more difficult obstacle in using the parser to detect lojban texts is the=
=20
"bare cmevla" rule: "lojban is an improved version of loglan" parses as a=
=20
grammatical bare cmevla sequence. But that's a whole 'nother kettle of=20
fish.=20

In any case, thank you.

mi'e la mukti mu'o

>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">xorxes wrote:<div><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" st=
yle=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-lef=
t: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Is the empty string (=CE=B5) really intended=
 to be included in the lojban language, or is this a quirk of the machine g=
rammar implementations?</div></div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;borde=
r-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div></div><div>It was done on purpose. It would be trivia=
l to change the grammar to disallow it. If we disallow it, however, would w=
e also have to consider the text "valsi si" ungrammatical? &nbsp;</div></di=
v></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>It makes sense that you woul=
d want to keep that grammatical.</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"g=
mail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div class=3D"gmail_quote">
<div>&nbsp;If it is included, as the parsers indicate, null lojban texts ar=
e to be found everywhere that you can't parse the beginning of a non-null l=
ojban text.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8=
ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>I'm not sure I follow. The grammar can only parse one text at a time, =
it can't parse a string of texts, so I'm not sure I see what the problem is=
.</div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></blockquote><div>&nbsp;</div><=
div>What I mean is that because the empty string is grammatical, a text wil=
l be discovered for any input, whether or not the input is grammatical and =
can be consumed. This is easy enough to correct for. What's proving to be a=
 more difficult obstacle in using the parser to detect lojban texts is the =
"bare cmevla" rule: "lojban is an improved version of loglan" parses as a g=
rammatical bare cmevla sequence. But that's a whole 'nother kettle of fish.=
&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>In any case, thank you.</div><div><br></div=
><div>mi'e la mukti mu'o</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
</blockquote></div></div>

<p></p>

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