Received: from mail-qc0-f186.google.com ([209.85.216.186]:55189) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1Wxzts-0008Bx-3j for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:35:01 -0700 Received: by mail-qc0-f186.google.com with SMTP id w7sf856627qcr.13 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:34:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=VH9mP87MOsRiwDmJGoFXOaIA4/6ZEhYfV8evfPwrF5U=; b=qo98gBAWsWh5KGPchp7zu+f2c/IHLEG0uVUVWuUHiIUsXz065d8i3wVWwnHEdKEHa0 c3paM6M1YRBQlv2Z+6TgWdaJcMul64Yx9faE+IlKgOS+0nZ8724TqtYGXRBaDhqJgqqj GcSsf/1Qz7ORdsKb7kFLhE8CXnvsOgOoG1L+UrFmYlcXl/1k0FUoyy5mBXcrhpR0hc6G Bl5XjPdLiOuIq0nGG//KHrpnSwcrN29gGgk/AYeqTpv2B0BOCOFfEtq6cwOMJwBAOn8w dAtCii+SW8wnKBAt/A7NraU/RnazLKKhfaZQl83NZQaRCSakazDAmyc72U1lopYwX8/t e2PA== X-Received: by 10.50.153.48 with SMTP id vd16mr80562igb.12.1403274877700; Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:34:37 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.136.168 with SMTP id qb8ls342443igb.43.gmail; Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:34:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.189.163 with SMTP id gj3mr1614095pac.32.1403274877033; Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:34:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x22d.google.com (mail-ve0-x22d.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22d]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fh2si14725vdb.3.2014.06.20.07.34.36 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:34:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22d as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22d; Received: by mail-ve0-f173.google.com with SMTP id db11so3661133veb.32 for ; Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:34:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.58.134.75 with SMTP id pi11mr872289veb.50.1403274876760; Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:34:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.86.136 with HTTP; Fri, 20 Jun 2014 07:34:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1687814.LVyUAvcs7U@caracal> From: Jacob Errington Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 10:34:16 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Specifying sumti types: another revision of gimste is complete To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::22d as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0111d1fe8d389304fc456423 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --089e0111d1fe8d389304fc456423 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In my theory of typed Lojban, I distinguish between evaluated numbers and unevaluated numbers, the latter being a subcategory of text. The types I believe in are: * predicates (ka and du'u abstractions) * events (nu abstractions) * numbers and parsed text (evaluated numbers introduced generally with {li} as well as lu..li'u quotes) * unparsed text (introduced with zo, lo'u...le'u, zoi, and me'o) * concrete sumti The problem I have with this formalization is that I can't seem to pin any good invariants on the class of concrete sumti. Even things which arguably do not have any spatial extent are included in my class of concrete sumti. Therefore, sadly, the defining characteristic of my concrete sumti is "is not any other kind of sumti"; it's a catch-all class. I believe furthermore in a number of subclasses to each kind of thing, so really, these 5 major types above really are type classes more so than types, and certain expressions can be polymorphic in which instance of the type class they are. .i mi'e la tsani mu'o On 19 June 2014 13:43, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > Well, mekso belongs to "text" type/subtype here. > > > 2014-06-19 21:36 GMT+04:00 Pierre Abbat : > > On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 18:48:54 Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas wrote: >> > Looking at "number" places: >> > >> > saclux1 (number) is the decimal equivalent of fraction x2 (number) in >> base >> > x3 (number) >> > >> > This doesn't really make much sense. If "li pa pi mu du li ci fi'u re" >> is >> > true, and "li pa pi mu cu saclu" is true, then we should be able to >> > conclude that "li ci fi'u re cu daclu" is true as well, so this place >> > structure needs to be fixed. One possibility is "x1 (text) is the >> decimal >> > representation of x2 (number) in base x3 (number)". >> >> x1 should be a mekso: "me'o pa pi mu cu saclu li ci fi'u re li pa no". >> Also it >> makes no sense for the left operand of "ju'u" to be a number; it has to >> be an >> unevaluated digit string. >> >> Pierre >> -- >> li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du >> li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e0111d1fe8d389304fc456423 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In my theory of typed Lojban, I distinguish between e= valuated numbers and unevaluated numbers, the latter being a subcategory of= text.
The types I believe in are:
* predicates (ka and du'u abst= ractions)
* events (nu abstractions)
* numbers and parsed text (evaluated numbers = introduced generally with {li} as well as lu..li'u quotes)
* unparse= d text (introduced with zo, lo'u...le'u, zoi, and me'o)
* concrete sumti

The problem I have with this formalization i= s that I can't seem to pin any good invariants on the class of concrete= sumti. Even things which arguably do not have any spatial extent are inclu= ded in my class of concrete sumti. Therefore, sadly, the defining character= istic of my concrete sumti is "is not any other kind of sumti"; i= t's a catch-all class.

I believe furthermore in a number of subclasses to each kind of thing, = so really, these 5 major types above really are type classes more so than t= ypes, and certain expressions can be polymorphic in which instance of the t= ype class they are.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

<= br>
On 19 June 2014 13:43, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, mekso belongs to &quo= t;text" type/subtype here.


2014-06-19 21:36 GMT+04:00 Pierre Abbat <phma@bezitopo.org>:=

On Tuesday, June 17, 2014 18:48:54 Jorge Lla= mb=C3=ADas wrote:
> Looking at "number" places:
>
> saclux1 (number) is the decimal equivalent of fraction x2 (number) in = base
> x3 (number)
>
> This doesn't really make much sense. If "li pa pi mu du li ci= fi'u re" is
> true, and "li pa pi mu cu saclu" is true, then we should be = able to
> conclude that "li ci fi'u re cu daclu" is true as well, = so this place
> structure needs to be fixed. One possibility is "x1 (text) is the= decimal
> representation of x2 (number) in base x3 (number)".

x1 should be a mekso: "me'o pa pi mu cu saclu li ci fi'u= re li pa no". Also it
makes no sense for the left operand of "ju'u" to be a number;= it has to be an
unevaluated digit string.

Pierre
--
li ze te'a ci vu'u ci bi'e te'a mu du
li ci su'i ze te'a mu bi'e vu'u ci

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=

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