Received: from mail-pb0-f60.google.com ([209.85.160.60]:39638) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1WzVFd-0008Lk-EZ for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:27 -0700 Received: by mail-pb0-f60.google.com with SMTP id um1sf132717pbc.15 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=date:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:references:subject:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=IEHOT+8/IyxJ90E6qT1F5Nmnyh9Tao/Tm4CjLYzMXFI=; b=ISU8AMXnWgvfToZH2x2j3gPULQj0q1JYoB6I7ZjTZW054z2xbbWLbLsndo0PNZCtHB Kt3menD+9Sqyz7/XyLsChf5P+7PGaXyehX34tcgGOykdZS6eQxrU0lx0jvq190esGqwQ tZEZeUlmna98d9GnlGOSiRaNO68/+McfQerKOcJuTFF3gJqhCUMUrM7RPODG4PUKFB23 rpyedrwzoQDs6TQ1ca/1FqybQHtF3BbE4ae0PPP2/MhvJEUfIKVSq1XYhRs7xj+0yaOT NS/FLkdvVvX/CL9WmBCmpLF7bKi1dPChbQkFcw7d8wHW8cY/TeIRJARPrYBbBwtlu+jB P4Fw== X-Received: by 10.50.142.104 with SMTP id rv8mr605404igb.13.1403633719137; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:19 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.126.66 with SMTP id mw2ls634372igb.9.gmail; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.13.6 with SMTP id d6mr1729002igc.1.1403633718710; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x22f.google.com (mail-qg0-x22f.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22f]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x7si131134qcd.3.2014.06.24.11.15.18 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of durka42@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22f; Received: by mail-qg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id q108so632553qgd.6 for ; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.224.130.5 with SMTP id q5mr4466848qas.72.1403633718532; Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [158.130.108.111] (seas1133.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu. [158.130.108.111]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id 22sm634043qgs.23.2014.06.24.11.15.17 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 24 Jun 2014 11:15:17 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 14:15:15 -0400 From: Alex Burka To: lojban@googlegroups.com Message-ID: <02413278706F4C56B204CAC67557473F@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: jbovlaste updated with camxes-morphology X-Mailer: sparrow 1.6.4 (build 1178) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: durka42@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of durka42@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mail=durka42@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="53a9c033_7724c67e_e35e" X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --53a9c033_7724c67e_e35e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Hmm, okay. So is it that {ibliardo} and {bolrbliardo} are pronounced with a= syllabic L, like {.ibl,iardo}/{bol,rbl,iardo}, as opposed to {bli,iardo} w= ith more of a BL cluster? mi'e la durka mu'o =20 On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > compare to {ibliardo} which is legal > =20 > =20 > 2014-06-24 21:35 GMT+04:00 la durka : > > FYI, this broke vlasisku's import. I've fixed it in the latest revision= at github.com/lojban/vlasisku (http://github.com/lojban/vlasisku) (and my = Vlasisku instance is running with an updated export from yesterday). > > =20 > > As for camxes.lojban.org (http://camxes.lojban.org), I believe it is up= dated, but I could be wrong. For instance, it rejects {bliardo} but accepts= {bliiardo} and {bolrbliardo}. And that leads to my question -- how is {bol= rbliardo} legal but {bliardo} illegal? What is the difference, besides the = prefix? > > =20 > > mi'e la durka mu'o > > =20 > > El martes, 24 de junio de 2014 09:16:26 UTC-4, Riley Martinez-Lynch esc= ribi=C3=B3: > > > coi jbopre > > > jbovlaste has been updated to apply camxes morphology when new words = are entered. The new morphological classifier, "vlatai.py" is part of the c= amxes-py Python parser, and replaces "vlatai", which is bundled with the jb= ofihe parser. > > > vlatai.py adds two types: "bu-letterals" (previously classified as "c= mavo" or "cmavo cluster") and "zei-lujvo" (previously classified as "lujvo"= ). These new types are subject to camxes parser rules: Invalid constructs s= uch as {bu bu} and {zei zei lujvo} are rejected. > > > Other "magic words" such as {zo} and {zoi} are not currently supporte= d in combination with {bu} and {zei}. This is an oversight rather than a de= sign choice, so please feel free to file a bug report if you find this is n= eeded. > > > The 21,940 valsi currently registered in jbovlaste were verified with= the new classifier: 21,829 reported no change, 10 were reclassified as bu-= letterals, 26 were reclassified as zei-lujvo, 1 was reclassified from fu'iv= la to lujvo, and 74 valsi were marked as "obsolete": cmevla (22), fu'ivla (= 51) and zei-lujvo (1). =20 > > > Details of the reclassified words can be found here: > > > > =20 > > > =20 > > > > https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/47 > > > > https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/39 > > > > https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/40 > > > > https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/43 > > > > https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/44 > > > =20 > > > The new "obsolete" valsi types are currently treated like the "experi= mental" types in XML and PDF exports: They are marked with a warning. > > > la gleki raised the issue that some words (e.g. {relmast}) which don'= t conform to this version of camxes, ought to in fact be valid. xorxes note= d that only older versions of the camxes/BPFK morphology prohibit such word= s. > > > I checked {relmast} against the Java/Rats! version of camxes which is= linked on the "Issues With The Lojban Formal Grammar" page: It was not acc= epted. It was also not accepted by camxes.js or either the standard or expe= rimental ilmentufa grammars. I also checked python-camxes, but it uses the = same version of the Java jar that was described above. > > > I built a new camxes Java/Rats! jar using the latest morphology on th= e tiki, and I can confirm that according to this version of the grammar, {r= elmast} is valid. However, it's not clear whether such a jar is currently d= istributed anywhere. > > > Based on all of this, my inclination is to update camxes-py as soon a= s possible to use the newest BPFK morphology (where "newest" may mean n yea= rs old). However, if I do this, it will no longer be in sync with most othe= r implementations of camxes currently distributed. Thoughts, anyone? > > > Thanks to rlpowell and tene for their assistance in getting the new s= oftware installed. > > > mi'e la mukti mu'o > > > =20 > > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > =20 > > -- =20 > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps "lojban" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send = an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@= googlegroups.com). > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com (mailto:lo= jban@googlegroups.com). > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > =20 > -- =20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Go= ogle Groups "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/l= ojban/gJaX8fPV_zc/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to lojba= n+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com)= . > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com (mailto:lojb= an@googlegroups.com). > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --53a9c033_7724c67e_e35e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
Hmm, okay. So is it that {ibliardo} and {bolrbliardo} a= re pronounced with a syllabic L, like {.ibl,iardo}/{bol,rbl,iardo}, as oppo= sed to {bli,iardo} with more of a BL cluster?

mi'e la du= rka mu'o
=20

On Tuesday, June 24, 2014 at 1= :54 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:

compare to {ibliardo} = which is legal


2014-06-24 21:35 GMT+04:00 la durka <= span dir=3D"ltr"><durka42@gmail.com>:
FYI, this broke vlasisku's import. I've fixed it in the latest r= evision at = github.com/lojban/vlasisku (and my Vlasisku instance is running with an= updated export from yesterday).

As for camxes.lo= jban.org, I believe it is updated, but I could be wrong. For instance, = it rejects {bliardo} but accepts {bliiardo} and {bolrbliardo}. And that lea= ds to my question -- how is {bolrbliardo} legal but {bliardo} illegal? What= is the difference, besides the prefix?

mi'e la durka mu'o

El martes, 24 de junio de 2014 09:16:26 UTC-4= , Riley Martinez-Lynch escribi=C3=B3:

coi jbopre

jbovlaste has been updated to apply camxes morphology when new words are= entered. The new morphological classifier, "vlatai.py" is part of the camx= es-py Python parser, and replaces "vlatai", which is bundled with the jbofi= he parser.

vlatai.py adds two types: "bu-letterals" (previously classified as "cmav= o" or "cmavo cluster") and "zei-lujvo" (previously classified as "lujvo"). = These new types are subject to camxes parser rules: Invalid constructs such= as {bu bu} and {zei zei lujvo} are rejected.

Other "magic words" such as {zo} and {zoi} are not currently supported i= n combination with {bu} and {zei}. This is an oversight rather than a desig= n choice, so please feel free to file a bug report if you find this is need= ed.

The 21,940 valsi currently registered in jbovlaste were verified with th= e new classifier: 21,829 reported no change, 10 were reclassified as bu-let= terals, 26 were reclassified as zei-lujvo, 1 was reclassified from fu'ivla = to lujvo, and 74 valsi were marked as "obsolete": cmevla (22), fu'ivla (51)= and zei-lujvo (1). 

Details of the reclassified words can be found here:

ht= tps://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/47

https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/39

https:= //github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/40

https://github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/43

https:= //github.com/lojban/jbovlaste/issues/44

The new "obsolete" valsi types are currently treated like t= he "experimental" types  in XML and PDF exports: They are marked with = a warning.

la gleki raised the issue that some words (e.g. {relmast}) which don't c= onform to this version of camxes, ought to in fact be valid. xorxes noted t= hat only older versions of the camxes/BPFK morphology prohibit such words.<= /p>

I checked {relmast} against the Java/Rats! version of camxes which is li= nked on the "Issues With The Lojban Formal Grammar" page: It was not accept= ed. It was also not accepted by camxes.js or either the standard or experim= ental ilmentufa grammars. I also checked python-camxes, but it uses the sam= e version of the Java jar that was described above.

I built a new camxes Java/Rats! jar using the latest morphology on the t= iki, and I can confirm that according to this version of the grammar, {relm= ast} is valid. However, it's not clear whether such a jar is currently dist= ributed anywhere.

Based on all of this, my inclination is to update camxes-py as soon as p= ossible to use the newest BPFK morphology (where "newest" may mean n years = old). However, if I do this, it will no longer be in sync with most other i= mplementations of camxes currently distributed. Thoughts, anyone?

Thanks to rlpowell and tene for their assistance in getting the new soft= ware installed.

mi'e la mukti mu'o

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=20 =20 =20 =20 =20

=20

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