Received: from mail-qg0-f59.google.com ([209.85.192.59]:63931) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1X4FLM-0006AW-RE for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:16:58 -0700 Received: by mail-qg0-f59.google.com with SMTP id e89sf440214qgf.14 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:16:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=SDMyHMZDwJSpJCSXs4bDR5OIcjck9NXET3orxt6i18Y=; b=BomG6LI74tvnPYcgtS1j6d2We4m2jYb/oPHQ7n35yKCLCVZdLrLaT0bpEPodzbhMSb jOozVFTciKw8ca6x8TdAM6WMH338JJQpBKmYMHUlTuePL12QBOpEYqnYiht4MhI6jfNq sEL5hmoO3QxKpygdoS7pCFz9KaAXR15YfE0HnTxlQVFNR5fTffAZPIL7Bswwm5pbE0Zk JMgkW8uPibEtYYenS2R5yklWtM06RizywPmY3zEx2+MQ1R3iDLb8hW74FsUa3g2vGwT+ NLa8fWeyPd6v12y09rglkClxjpJmI+PEVYBCNcibZ1ouWVXywnULLRkwfNCVR4jX6Fv2 hI0A== X-Received: by 10.140.89.5 with SMTP id u5mr54062qgd.24.1404764210496; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:16:50 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.140.26.241 with SMTP id 104ls1787234qgv.21.gmail; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:16:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.58.132.68 with SMTP id os4mr13745476veb.15.1404764210052; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ve0-x229.google.com (mail-ve0-x229.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c01::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id fh2si1844879vdb.3.2014.07.07.13.16.50 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:16:50 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c01::229; Received: by mail-ve0-x229.google.com with SMTP id pa12so4755455veb.28 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:16:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.52.84.162 with SMTP id a2mr24875918vdz.23.1404764209913; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:16:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.220.86.136 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:16:29 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5378CE5C.3040702@gmail.com> From: Jacob Errington Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:16:29 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] cidja To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c01::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11368f56b9a85004fda027a2 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11368f56b9a85004fda027a2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable If you write "selpinxe noda" then that's "selpinxe naku [su'o]da", which denies that the x1 is a drink, va'i the selbri is negated as well. On 7 July 2014 15:31, Michael Turniansky wrote: > Yes, it's always been a selpinxe for me, too. And sure you can have a > beverage that no one drinks. That's a selpinxe zi'o (or selpinxe no da, > depnding on the nuance you are going for). > > --gejyspa > > > > On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas > wrote: > >> >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Ilmen wrote: >> >>> coi ro do >>> >>> Some times ago the question of whether {cidja} implies solid food only >>> or includes beverages as well has been raised on IRC. >>> >>> Let's look at {cidja}'s definition: >>> >>> * "x1 is food/feed/nutriment for x2; x1 is edible/gives nutrition to x2= " >>> >>> According to this definition, it seems perfectly sensible to create a >>> lujvo {likydja} (litki cidja) for drink/beverage, as those are also a >>> source of nutrition (which seems to be the underlying concept of {cidja= }). >>> >> >> >> Things like soups or baby formula are clearly likydja, but I'm not sure >> how nutritious things like vodka or sodas are. >> >> >> >>> {ligdja} (sligu cidja) could be used for solid food specifically. >>> >>> gismu are intended to have broad meanings, and we don't have any brivla >>> for "beverage". >>> >>> What's your opinion on that matter? Would you agree that a beverage is = a >>> {cidja}? >>> >> >> "selpinxe" is the word I've always seen used for "beverage". That of >> course raises the question of whether something that nobody ever drinks = can >> still qualify as a selpinxe, and whether something someone drinks but is >> not potable qualifies as a selpinxe. One way out of that is to say that >> "selpinxe" is not necessarily identical with "se pinxe". >> >> mu'o mi'e xorxes >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11368f56b9a85004fda027a2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you write "selpinxe noda" then that's &qu= ot;selpinxe naku [su'o]da", which denies that the x1 is a drink, v= a'i the selbri is negated as well.
=

On 7 July 2014 15:31, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 Yes, it's always been a selpinxe for me, too. = =C2=A0And sure you can have a beverage that no one drinks. =C2=A0That's= a selpinxe zi'o (or selpinxe no da, depnding on the nuance you are goi= ng for).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--gejyspa



On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com> wrote:
=
On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Ilmen= <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com> wrote:
coi ro do

Some times ago the question of whether {cidja} implies solid food only or i= ncludes beverages as well has been raised on IRC.

Let's look at {cidja}'s definition:

* "x1 is food/feed/nutriment for x2; x1 is edible/gives nutrition to x= 2"

According to this definition, it seems perfectly sensible to create a lujvo= {likydja} (litki cidja) for drink/beverage, as those are also a source of = nutrition (which seems to be the underlying concept of {cidja}).


Things like soups or baby formula = are clearly likydja, but I'm not sure how nutritious things like vodka = or sodas are.

=C2=A0
{ligdja} (sligu cidja) could be used for solid food specifically.

gismu are intended to have broad meanings, and we don't have any brivla= for "beverage".

What's your opinion on that matter? Would you agree that a beverage is = a {cidja}?

"selpinxe" i= s the word I've always seen used for "beverage". That of cour= se raises the question of whether something that nobody ever drinks can sti= ll qualify as a selpinxe, and whether something someone drinks but is not p= otable qualifies as a selpinxe. One way out of that is to say that "se= lpinxe" is not necessarily identical with "se pinxe".

mu'o mi'e xorxes=C2=A0

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