Received: from mail-yk0-f185.google.com ([209.85.160.185]:36672) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1X4FaK-0006D8-6X for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:32:25 -0700 Received: by mail-yk0-f185.google.com with SMTP id 19sf448758ykq.22 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:32:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Algi15Y6xMo+o1WpsD/9DH67E4do/lVP2qXWbuzTyto=; b=Hm5q4NiQnIe+0vzB++kdVNbSUGsqPQ5mdYWbUm/UYNGvifDKbNpTtDjo7Tkm8+m9gl mWzmSmShFXr0xcg7lblmdMzcGZmXaiub/VFFijbRH73A20Ci5KLgVJo3YCbBB8Br9AP0 rY1HADbfpO++i9cUmWm1rw7dK7dmw0+QvX99ZDGSP6uBPBl6iYXMk+q/uEExRm4SWDC/ uOqzj1OJ3vQuz2mLicy3yt/F2WYMY7c3JW4uyF2Ko/fvQTeuGkUoAHr0QhqY2OnRNi+0 jYISJZV18War/UE2SXFByDX91zYLOMmFsdoxI4662Rb8n2nZWk+l6KHV9hctnvhOzh7o Px0Q== X-Received: by 10.50.29.17 with SMTP id f17mr753716igh.15.1404765138036; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:32:18 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.25.137 with SMTP id c9ls5305055igg.7.canary; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:32:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.228.162 with SMTP id sj2mr15468492pac.11.1404765137501; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qg0-x229.google.com (mail-qg0-x229.google.com [2607:f8b0:400d:c04::229]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w4si2562045qcd.3.2014.07.07.13.32.17 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::229 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400d:c04::229; Received: by mail-qg0-x229.google.com with SMTP id i50so4356410qgf.0 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:32:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.36.149 with SMTP id p21mr49298078qgp.54.1404765137371; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 13:32:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.81.4 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 13:32:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <5378CE5C.3040702@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:32:17 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] cidja From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400d:c04::229 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c13f44018ae704fda05f84 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c13f44018ae704fda05f84 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Why, are you insinuating that ti karce no da makes what I'm pointing not, in fact a car? Or a vacant office can't be a "briju no da"? The fact that nothing can fill the x2 place doesn't necessarily take something out of the realm of it being whatever the x1 specifies, vau ru'a On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Jacob Errington wrote: > If you write "selpinxe noda" then that's "selpinxe naku [su'o]da", which > denies that the x1 is a drink, va'i the selbri is negated as well. > > > On 7 July 2014 15:31, Michael Turniansky wrote: > >> Yes, it's always been a selpinxe for me, too. And sure you can have a >> beverage that no one drinks. That's a selpinxe zi'o (or selpinxe no da, >> depnding on the nuance you are going for). >> >> --gejyspa >> >> >> >> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas >> wrote: >> >>> >>> On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Ilmen wrote= : >>> >>>> coi ro do >>>> >>>> Some times ago the question of whether {cidja} implies solid food only >>>> or includes beverages as well has been raised on IRC. >>>> >>>> Let's look at {cidja}'s definition: >>>> >>>> * "x1 is food/feed/nutriment for x2; x1 is edible/gives nutrition to x= 2" >>>> >>>> According to this definition, it seems perfectly sensible to create a >>>> lujvo {likydja} (litki cidja) for drink/beverage, as those are also a >>>> source of nutrition (which seems to be the underlying concept of {cidj= a}). >>>> >>> >>> >>> Things like soups or baby formula are clearly likydja, but I'm not sure >>> how nutritious things like vodka or sodas are. >>> >>> >>> >>>> {ligdja} (sligu cidja) could be used for solid food specifically. >>>> >>>> gismu are intended to have broad meanings, and we don't have any brivl= a >>>> for "beverage". >>>> >>>> What's your opinion on that matter? Would you agree that a beverage is >>>> a {cidja}? >>>> >>> >>> "selpinxe" is the word I've always seen used for "beverage". That of >>> course raises the question of whether something that nobody ever drinks= can >>> still qualify as a selpinxe, and whether something someone drinks but i= s >>> not potable qualifies as a selpinxe. One way out of that is to say that >>> "selpinxe" is not necessarily identical with "se pinxe". >>> >>> mu'o mi'e xorxes >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "lojban" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c13f44018ae704fda05f84 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0 Why, are you insinuating that ti karce no da makes = what I'm pointing not, in fact a car?
=C2=A0 Or a vacant office can= 't be a "briju no da"? =C2=A0The fact that nothing can fill t= he x2 place doesn't necessarily take something out of the realm of it b= eing whatever the x1 specifies, vau ru'a


On Mon,= Jul 7, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Jacob Errington <nictytan@gmail.com> wrote:
If you write "selpinxe= noda" then that's "selpinxe naku [su'o]da", which d= enies that the x1 is a drink, va'i the selbri is negated as well.

On 7 July 2014 15:31, Michael Turniansky <mturniansky@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 Yes, it's always been a selpinxe for me, too. = =C2=A0And sure you can have a beverage that no one drinks. =C2=A0That's= a selpinxe zi'o (or selpinxe no da, depnding on the nuance you are goi= ng for).

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0--gejyspa



On Sun, May= 18, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Jorge Llamb=C3=ADas <jjllambias@gmail.com>= ; wrote:
=
On Sun, May 18, 2014 at 12:14 PM, Ilmen= <ilmen.pokebip@gmail.com> wrote:
coi ro do

Some times ago the question of whether {cidja} implies solid food only or i= ncludes beverages as well has been raised on IRC.

Let's look at {cidja}'s definition:

* "x1 is food/feed/nutriment for x2; x1 is edible/gives nutrition to x= 2"

According to this definition, it seems perfectly sensible to create a lujvo= {likydja} (litki cidja) for drink/beverage, as those are also a source of = nutrition (which seems to be the underlying concept of {cidja}).


Things like soups or baby formula = are clearly likydja, but I'm not sure how nutritious things like vodka = or sodas are.

=C2=A0
{ligdja} (sligu cidja) could be used for solid food specifically.

gismu are intended to have broad meanings, and we don't have any brivla= for "beverage".

What's your opinion on that matter? Would you agree that a beverage is = a {cidja}?

"selpinxe" i= s the word I've always seen used for "beverage". That of cour= se raises the question of whether something that nobody ever drinks can sti= ll qualify as a selpinxe, and whether something someone drinks but is not p= otable qualifies as a selpinxe. One way out of that is to say that "se= lpinxe" is not necessarily identical with "se pinxe".

mu'o mi'e xorxes=C2=A0

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