Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2014 05:58:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Andrew Browne <dersaidin@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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References: <3c98f147-b4cb-4561-a838-f80c02745b12@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [lojban] Re: Computer Friendly Handwriting
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Glyphs are allocated in alphabetical order. Would it make sense to 
prioritize some (ie. vowels, maybe most common consonants - although 
consonant frequency will be much more language specific) and assign these 
the simplest glyphs?

Korean hangul does a nice job of prioritizing vowels for efficiency.


How does Cscript compare to:

- http://www.reddit.com/r/elianscript (see links on the right)
  Most of the examples of that elian are quite messy - but what is stopping 
Cscript from being written just as messily?
  One cool feature of elian is simple/robust rules for what order to read 
letters when they are fit together in different/creative ways.

- http://dotsies.org/
  Dotsies appears to be more compact, but dots are may be harder to write 
than strokes.


If you want to make the claim that Cscript is easier to OCR than either of 
these, it would be a good experiment to write an OCR implementation for 
each and compare the performance/complexity/difficulties.


On Sunday, July 20, 2014 10:25:28 PM UTC+10, vasten wrote:
>
> A logban user contacted me and says he is using this for lojban, figured 
> you guys might like too :)
> [  http://www.facebook.com/Dscripting  - see comments in the top post on 
> this page for details ]
>
> He says tendinitis in the right hand forces him to use his left hand and 
> he find Cscript easier. 
> Seems he has mapped it to lojabn quite easily.
>
> CSCRIPT - Computer / Human Bi-Friendly Writing System
>
> http://dscript.ca/cscript.pdf
>
> Cscript is designed to be both easy to read and write by humans as well as 
> be digitally and programmatically read and written by computers.
>
> There is of course a trade off between the two. Cscript could be thought 
> of as "lying somewhere between QR codes and standard hand writing"
>
> For Humans it easy to produce with standard lined paper and allows some 
> intuitive "cursive" elements.
>
> For Computers it removes entirely the need for glyph recognition and 
> shape/vector analysis. It could read straight off the raster level as a 
> string of absolute values. It eliminates the need for an entire level of 
> OCR shape comparison, and drastically reduces ambiguity, requires FAR less 
> processing power and increased accuracy.
>
> It is not meant to be "perfect" for either, but instead offer a more 
> balanced alternative.
>
> **technically it would not be considered "OCR" as it does not actually 
> require the "character recognition" level of the software at all.
>
> ***keep in mind the "value range zones" can even be flexible based on 
> context (ie. assume top=1, bottom=0.. [0->0.33]=0, [0.34->0.66]=1, 
> [0.67->1]=2... the values [0 , 0.1, 0.1] = "0-1-1" because there would be 
> no corner point in 000
>
> Another new project of mine that might be fun too....
>
> CHEMICAL CALLIGRAPHY
>
> http://dscript.org/chem.pdf
>
> This is a mnemonic device and art form.
>
> It is designed to allow simpler representation of bio-chem molecules with 
> "less noise".
>
> It drops some information, which is assumed is "obvious" to someone with 
> basic chemistry knowledge. The missing information can usually be "filled 
> in" with basic chemistry understanding.
>
> It allows various forms of any one molecule (the larger the molecule the 
> more possible forms), which adds greatly to the users ability to make 
> artistic and aesthetic choices without altering the molecular and 
> structural information.
>
>
>
> Still have not rebuilt my lab, current apt too small :( So still just 
> hacking with "pen and paper" ;)
>
> Hopefully soon will be able to get back to my mad science  :)
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>Glyphs are allocated in alphabetical o=
rder. Would it make sense to prioritize some (ie. vowels, maybe most common=
 consonants - although consonant frequency will be much more language speci=
fic) and assign these the simplest glyphs?</div><div><br></div><div>Korean =
hangul does a nice job of prioritizing vowels for efficiency.<br></div><div=
><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>How does Cscript compare to:<=
/div><div><br></div><div>- http://www.reddit.com/r/elianscript (see links o=
n the right)</div><div>&nbsp; Most of the examples of that elian are quite =
messy - but what is stopping Cscript from being written just as messily?</d=
iv><div>&nbsp; One cool feature of elian is simple/robust rules for what or=
der to read letters when they are fit together in different/creative ways.<=
/div><div><br></div><div>-&nbsp;http://dotsies.org/<br></div><div>&nbsp; Do=
tsies appears to be more compact, but dots are may be harder to write than =
strokes.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>If you want to make the cl=
aim that Cscript is easier to OCR than either of these, it would be a good =
experiment to write an OCR implementation for each and compare the performa=
nce/complexity/difficulties.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br>On=
 Sunday, July 20, 2014 10:25:28 PM UTC+10, vasten wrote:<blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #cc=
c solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><div dir=3D"ltr">A logban user contacted me and=
 says he is using this for lojban, figured you guys might like too :)<br>[&=
nbsp; <a href=3D"http://www.facebook.com/Dscripting" target=3D"_blank" onmo=
usedown=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.face=
book.com%2FDscripting\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNHeOXyaQ_C1Zw-Co06g=
q6N0GPZFBg';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url=
?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FDscripting\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\=
75AFQjCNHeOXyaQ_C1Zw-Co06gq6N0GPZFBg';return true;">http://www.facebook.com=
/<wbr>Dscripting</a>&nbsp; - see comments in the top post on this page for =
details ]<br><br>He says tendinitis in the right hand forces him to use his=
 left hand and he find Cscript easier. <br>Seems he has mapped it to lojabn=
 quite easily.<br><br>CSCRIPT - Computer / Human Bi-Friendly Writing System=
<br><br><a href=3D"http://dscript.ca/cscript.pdf" target=3D"_blank" onmouse=
down=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fdscript.ca%=
2Fcscript.pdf\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEtcbYvOPYwWcvkJsFx6GyI-ksl=
zw';return true;" onclick=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75htt=
p%3A%2F%2Fdscript.ca%2Fcscript.pdf\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNEtcbY=
vOPYwWcvkJsFx6GyI-kslzw';return true;">http://dscript.ca/cscript.pdf</a><br=
><br>Cscript is designed to be both easy to read and write by humans as wel=
l as be digitally and programmatically read and written by computers.<br><b=
r>There is of course a trade off between the two. Cscript could be thought =
of as "lying somewhere between QR codes and standard hand writing"<br><br>F=
or Humans it easy to produce with standard lined paper and allows some intu=
itive "cursive" elements.<br><br>For Computers it removes entirely the need=
 for glyph recognition and shape/vector analysis. It could read straight of=
f the raster level as a string of absolute values. It eliminates the need f=
or an entire level of OCR shape comparison, and drastically reduces ambigui=
ty, requires FAR less processing power and increased accuracy.<br><br>It is=
 not meant to be "perfect" for either, but instead offer a more balanced al=
ternative.<br><br>**technically it would not be considered "OCR" as it does=
 not actually require the "character recognition" level of the software at =
all.<br><br>***keep in mind the "value range zones" can even be flexible ba=
sed on context (ie. assume top=3D1, bottom=3D0.. [0-&gt;0.33]=3D0, [0.34-&g=
t;0.66]=3D1, [0.67-&gt;1]=3D2... the values [0 , 0.1, 0.1] =3D "0-1-1" beca=
use there would be no corner point in 000<br><br>Another new project of min=
e that might be fun too....<br><br>CHEMICAL CALLIGRAPHY<br><br><a href=3D"h=
ttp://dscript.org/chem.pdf" target=3D"_blank" onmousedown=3D"this.href=3D'h=
ttp://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fdscript.org%2Fchem.pdf\46sa\75D\4=
6sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNF_94t9uLsLHFm3mvswlSZp11V4Uw';return true;" onclic=
k=3D"this.href=3D'http://www.google.com/url?q\75http%3A%2F%2Fdscript.org%2F=
chem.pdf\46sa\75D\46sntz\0751\46usg\75AFQjCNF_94t9uLsLHFm3mvswlSZp11V4Uw';r=
eturn true;">http://dscript.org/chem.pdf</a><br><br>This is a mnemonic devi=
ce and art form.<br><br>It is designed to allow simpler representation of b=
io-chem molecules with "less noise".<br><br>It drops some information, whic=
h is assumed is "obvious" to someone with basic chemistry knowledge. The mi=
ssing information can usually be "filled in" with basic chemistry understan=
ding.<br><br>It allows various forms of any one molecule (the larger the mo=
lecule the more possible forms), which adds greatly to the users ability to=
 make artistic and aesthetic choices without altering the molecular and str=
uctural information.<br><br><br><br>Still have not rebuilt my lab, current =
apt too small :( So still just hacking with "pen and paper" ;)<br><br>Hopef=
ully soon will be able to get back to my mad science&nbsp; :)<br></div></bl=
ockquote></div></div>

<p></p>

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