Received: from mail-wi0-f183.google.com ([209.85.212.183]:34670) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XFQpH-0002X5-Ut for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:46:05 -0700 Received: by mail-wi0-f183.google.com with SMTP id q5sf432172wiv.10 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:45:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=eE0aTaXdpojhICNGE+wxL/VVwAstWjXwANpweAPRZTw=; b=mBIRtSgp0JGSL8MmJQPvBqcWXIij9XtsQH081diuhDkb+0aoGhrYudcgUOISy6A61J jGgVFX7+SbOVz5pe6oRldnggH89W/xt0yhiz3D8056HR1NLiUFHlXNMMdKalOhTFS+aR mQrKXcFbWq1WdSm29Ivy70WyRmUAuApS83hTC+MEYlAcZB8gzrpIivXFDTI7lE7pq8VU gzVtv916jVKCZXh+BmFzweDGnmT8G0CE9cApHTH+qoQfHs7HxUhd6gmOWbNEqBU+S3PC DM+wHI41P5wv/xmznrArYdYJ8PUWljO4LeeJqnsY0yGp6pzGO59YLbjJN/whqTHu7uma Fpqg== X-Received: by 10.152.219.136 with SMTP id po8mr175669lac.0.1407429956995; Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.185.8 with SMTP id ey8ls60068lac.20.gmail; Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.152.42.210 with SMTP id q18mr395999lal.5.1407429956268; Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wi0-x231.google.com (mail-wi0-x231.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c05::231]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id hm4si685028wib.3.2014.08.07.09.45.56 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::231 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c05::231; Received: by mail-wi0-f177.google.com with SMTP id ho1so5367746wib.4 for ; Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.206.84 with SMTP id lm20mr61325372wic.9.1407429956168; Thu, 07 Aug 2014 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.180.38.77 with HTTP; Thu, 7 Aug 2014 09:45:56 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <1a05ebdb-5a99-4382-b6a3-4205d1d16ae6@googlegroups.com> <857775fe-c38f-4e84-b3b9-17034a98a989@googlegroups.com> <036a8ae9-4a0b-455c-b014-0b1a97e37d62@googlegroups.com> <20140807124944.GI28465@samsa.fritz.box> <1fa41501-809e-4157-aee4-777215596290@googlegroups.com> <20140807134047.GK28465@samsa.fritz.box> Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2014 12:45:56 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] CLL Corrections From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: Mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c05::231 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c2664c957e3605000cd2a4 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --001a11c2664c957e3605000cd2a4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Well, if you are bringing up English, we also say "Baltimore, where Tom traveled to" (la baltimor poi la tam klama [ke'a]) --gejyspa On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 12:07 PM, TR NS wrote: > > On Thursday, August 7, 2014 9:40:49 AM UTC-4, v4hn wrote: >> >> >> You didn't read on. >> >> However, ``ke'a'' can be omitted if it is clear to the listener that it >> belongs in some place other than x1: >> >> 1.8) tu poi le mlatu pu lacpu cu ratcu >> That-distant-thing which the cat drags is-a-rat >> >> Also, please consider to ask your more basic questions on the >> lojban-beginners mailing list. >> >> > That's my point about the ambiguity. Either it fills x1 or or it fills the > next available sumiti. There needs to be no "presumption" or "if it is > clear to the listener". I may have interpreted that sentence differently > than you too. To me it read that one could presume it was in *any* slot > other x1 if it made contextual sense to the listener. e.g. if x3 was "clear > to the listener" they'd could choose that one too. As opposed to the > interpretation that it meant the "next available slot". Eliminating that > ambiguity was my point of bringing this up. > > Personally I think it makes more sense for it just to always be x1 b/c it > is easy enough to add `se` or `te` as needed, and I think if fits the > intent of NOI better. Consider I want to say "Tom who was a traveler to > Baltimore." > > .tom. poi la .baltimor. pu klama > > .trans. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c2664c957e3605000cd2a4 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=C2=A0 Well, if you are bringing up English, we also say &= quot;Baltimore, where Tom traveled to" (la baltimor poi la tam klama [= ke'a])
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 --gejyspa
=



On Thu,= Aug 7, 2014 at 12:07 PM, TR NS <transfire@gmail.com> wrot= e:

On Thur= sday, August 7, 2014 9:40:49 AM UTC-4, v4hn wrote:

You didn't read on.

However, ``ke'a'' can be omitted if it is clear to the list= ener that it belongs in some place other than x1:=20

1.8) =C2=A0tu poi le mlatu pu lacpu cu ratcu
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 That-distant-thing which the cat drags is-a-rat

Also, please consider to ask your more basic questions on the lojban-be= ginners mailing list.


That's my point about th= e ambiguity. Either it fills x1 or or it fills the next available sumiti. T= here needs to be no "presumption" or "if it is clear to the = listener". I may have interpreted that sentence differently than you t= oo. To me it read that one could presume it was in *any* slot other x1 if i= t made contextual sense to the listener. e.g. if x3 was "clear to the = listener" they'd could choose that one too. As opposed to the inte= rpretation that it meant the "next available slot". Eliminating t= hat ambiguity was my point of bringing this up.=C2=A0

Personally I think it makes more sense for it just to a= lways be x1 b/c it is easy enough to add `se` or `te` as needed, and I thin= k if fits the intent of NOI better. Consider I want to say "Tom who wa= s a traveler to Baltimore."

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 .tom. poi la .baltimor. pu klama

.trans.

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
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