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Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 13:09:47 -0400
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Subject: Re: [lojban] One end cmavo to rule them all
From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Aug 7, 2014 at 9:00 AM, TR NS <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Also, thinking about the use case you describe, it occurs to me that it
> would be much easier to remember a single cmavo that worked in conjunction
> with the opening cmavo, e.g. `ke melbri nixli kexo ckule` instead of `ke
> melbri nixli ke'e ckule` where `xo` is some cmavo that means "close the
> cmavo I just mentioned".
>
"Selma'o cast" type cmavo, which is really what you are suggesting (it
casts LE to KU, NOI to KUhO, etc.) are generally difficult to formalize.
This is a big part of why mekso is such a big mess. (Another is just YACC
parser limitations, some of which have not been corrected in the
semi-official PEG or even the zasni gerna).

Going into some details, let's call your cmavo {xau} for discussion ({xo}
is taken). {vau} and arguably {boi} do not match your paradigm. {le'u}
looks like it should, but it really doesn't, because if {lo'u xau}
terminates {lo'u} then you can't quote {lo'u xau} to explain what it means.
(By contrast, you can quote {le'u} using {zo} and can quote {zo} using
{lo'u}/{le'u}, which means there is syntax available for defining these in
Lojban.) The interaction with {lu} would be intelligible but
counterintuitive and possibly not formalizable: {lu ... lu xau} appears to
start a second quote and then, doesn't. And finally you would need to
specify how exactly {xau} interacts with {si} (is {ke xau} one word or
two?). Everything else would probably work out.

mi'e la latro'a mu'o

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, Aug 7, 2014 at 9:00 AM, TR NS <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
ransfire@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">transfire@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wr=
ote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D""><br></div><div>Also, thinking about the us=
e case you describe, it occurs to me that it would be much easier to rememb=
er a single cmavo that worked in conjunction with the opening cmavo, e.g. `=
ke melbri nixli kexo ckule` instead of `ke melbri nixli ke&#39;e ckule` whe=
re `xo` is some cmavo that means &quot;close the cmavo I just mentioned&quo=
t;.</div>
</div></blockquote></div>&quot;Selma&#39;o cast&quot; type cmavo, which is =
really what you are suggesting (it casts LE to KU, NOI to KUhO, etc.) are g=
enerally difficult to formalize. This is a big part of why mekso is such a =
big mess. (Another is just YACC parser limitations, some of which have not =
been corrected in the semi-official PEG or even the zasni gerna).<br>
<br>Going into some details, let&#39;s call your cmavo {xau} for discussion=
 ({xo} is taken). {vau} and arguably {boi} do not match your paradigm. {le&=
#39;u} looks like it should, but it really doesn&#39;t, because if {lo&#39;=
u xau} terminates {lo&#39;u} then you can&#39;t quote {lo&#39;u xau} to exp=
lain what it means. (By contrast, you can quote {le&#39;u} using {zo} and c=
an quote {zo} using {lo&#39;u}/{le&#39;u}, which means there is syntax avai=
lable for defining these in Lojban.) The interaction with {lu} would be int=
elligible but counterintuitive and possibly not formalizable: {lu ... lu xa=
u} appears to start a second quote and then, doesn&#39;t. And finally you w=
ould need to specify how exactly {xau} interacts with {si} (is {ke xau} one=
 word or two?). Everything else would probably work out.<br>
</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">mi=
9;e la latro&#39;a mu&#39;o<br></div></div>

<p></p>

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