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Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:56:34 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj37M58O_=1_PYf=femJSkFGCgVunKaDQzSmoL+1eZV8Ag@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban for great-great-grandfather
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 12:25 PM, TR NS <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, August 14, 2014 2:23:44 PM UTC-4, TR NS wrote:
>>
>> On Thursday, August 14, 2014 12:48:16 PM UTC-4, aionys wrote:
>>>
>>> {pamoi patfu} would more likely be understood as the fourth father you
>>> have (i.e., mom remarried a few times), not one of eight direct male
>>> ancestors four branches up the tree.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Good point, maybe {vomoi ba'i patfu} ?
>>
>
That's not grammatical, so no. Also, {ba'i} is the cmavo "replaced by ...".
{-ba'i} is the rafsi of {banli}, the difference being {ba'i} is a word on
its own, {-ba'i} only occurs in lujvo. Neither {ba'i} nor {-ba'i} is what
we want, anyway.

Should that be `banli` instead of `ba'i`? Sorry I know very little Lojban
> thus far.
>

For purposes of grammar, yes. For purposes of talking about male ancestors,
no. "Grandfather" and {banli patfu} mean very different things. {banli
patfu} refers to a father who is in some property great, e.g. teaching
little league or barbecuing steaks.

I'm not going to be a {lo bersa lo bencauxasli} and say Lojban is not
capable of metaphorical use, but when translating a concept from another
language, you need to translate the /meaning/, not the words.

The shortest way I can think of to refer generally to GGGGfathers is {lo
nakydze be fi li vo}, "A male ancestor of 4th degree".

-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, Aug 14, 2014 at 12:25 PM, TR NS <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:transfire@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">transfire@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> =
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div cla=
ss=3D"">On Thursday, August 14, 2014 2:23:44 PM UTC-4, TR NS wrote:<blockqu=
ote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px=
 solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
On Thursday, August 14, 2014 12:48:16 PM UTC-4, aionys wrote:<blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">{pamoi patfu} would mo=
re likely be understood as the fourth father you have (i.e., mom remarried =
a few times), not one of eight direct male ancestors four branches up the t=
ree.<br>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Good point, maybe {vo=
moi=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);white-space:pre-wrap">ba&#39;i </span=
>patfu} ?</div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Th=
at&#39;s not grammatical, so no. Also, {ba&#39;i} is the cmavo &quot;replac=
ed by ...&quot;. {-ba&#39;i} is the rafsi of {banli}, the difference being =
{ba&#39;i} is a word on its own, {-ba&#39;i} only occurs in lujvo. Neither =
{ba&#39;i} nor {-ba&#39;i} is what we want, anyway.<br>
</div><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px =
0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D""><div></div></div><div><span style=3D"color:rgb=
(0,0,0);white-space:pre-wrap">Should that be `banli` instead of `ba&#39;i`?=
  Sorry I know very little Lojban thus far.</span></div>
</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>For purposes of grammar, yes. For pu=
rposes of talking about male ancestors, no. &quot;Grandfather&quot; and {ba=
nli patfu} mean very different things. {banli patfu} refers to a father who=
 is in some property great, e.g. teaching little league or barbecuing steak=
s.<br>
<br></div><div>I&#39;m not going to be a {lo bersa lo bencauxasli} and say =
Lojban is not capable of metaphorical use, but when translating a concept f=
rom another language, you need to translate the /meaning/, not the words.<b=
r>
<br></div><div>The shortest way I can think of to refer generally to GGGGfa=
thers is {lo nakydze be fi li vo}, &quot;A male ancestor of 4th degree&quot=
;.<br></div><div>=A0</div></div>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aionys.<br><br>
.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;=
o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
</div></div>

<p></p>

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