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Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:58:29 -0600
Message-ID: <CAMKwHj0Bi2zUkfn6O0mfG15Z7A3nHEpcj6iUAwh3Sm6m-uVAzg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban for great-great-grandfather
From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
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On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 8:56 PM, Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 12:25 PM, TR NS <transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, August 14, 2014 2:23:44 PM UTC-4, TR NS wrote:
>>>
>>> On Thursday, August 14, 2014 12:48:16 PM UTC-4, aionys wrote:
>>>>
>>>> {pamoi patfu} would more likely be understood as the fourth father you
>>>> have (i.e., mom remarried a few times), not one of eight direct male
>>>> ancestors four branches up the tree.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good point, maybe {vomoi ba'i patfu} ?
>>>
>>
> That's not grammatical, so no. Also, {ba'i} is the cmavo "replaced by
> ...". {-ba'i} is the rafsi of {banli}, the difference being {ba'i} is a
> word on its own, {-ba'i} only occurs in lujvo. Neither {ba'i} nor {-ba'i}
> is what we want, anyway.
>
> Should that be `banli` instead of `ba'i`? Sorry I know very little Lojban
>> thus far.
>>
>
> For purposes of grammar, yes. For purposes of talking about male
> ancestors, no. "Grandfather" and {banli patfu} mean very different things.
> {banli patfu} refers to a father who is in some property great, e.g.
> teaching little league or barbecuing steaks.
>
> I'm not going to be a {lo bersa be lo bencauxasli} and say Lojban is not
> capable of metaphorical use, but when translating a concept from another
> language, you need to translate the /meaning/, not the words.
>
> The shortest way I can think of to refer generally to GGGGfathers is {lo
> nakydze be fi li vo}, "A male ancestor of 4th degree".
>
> --
> mu'o mi'e .aionys.
>
> .i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )
>


-- 
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.e'ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
hu, Aug 14, 2014 at 8:56 PM, Jonathan Jones <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail.com</a>&gt;</=
span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra">=
<div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div class=3D"">On Thu, Aug 14, 2014 at 12:25 PM=
, TR NS <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:transfire@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">transfire@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>

<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-=
left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>On =
Thursday, August 14, 2014 2:23:44 PM UTC-4, TR NS wrote:<blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 12:48:16 PM UTC-4, aionys wrote:<blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid=
 rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">{pamoi patfu} would mo=
re likely be understood as the fourth father you have (i.e., mom remarried =
a few times), not one of eight direct male ancestors four branches up the t=
ree.<br>

</div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>Good point, maybe {vo=
moi=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);white-space:pre-wrap">ba&#39;i </span=
>patfu} ?</div></blockquote></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div></div>
<div>That&#39;s not grammatical, so no. Also, {ba&#39;i} is the cmavo &quot=
;replaced by ...&quot;. {-ba&#39;i} is the rafsi of {banli}, the difference=
 being {ba&#39;i} is a word on its own, {-ba&#39;i} only occurs in lujvo. N=
either {ba&#39;i} nor {-ba&#39;i} is what we want, anyway.<br>

</div><div class=3D""><div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div></div></div><div><span style=3D"colo=
r:rgb(0,0,0);white-space:pre-wrap">Should that be `banli` instead of `ba=
9;i`?  Sorry I know very little Lojban thus far.</span></div>

</div></blockquote><div><br></div></div><div>For purposes of grammar, yes. =
For purposes of talking about male ancestors, no. &quot;Grandfather&quot; a=
nd {banli patfu} mean very different things. {banli patfu} refers to a fath=
er who is in some property great, e.g. teaching little league or barbecuing=
 steaks.<br>

<br></div><div>I&#39;m not going to be a {lo bersa be lo bencauxasli} and s=
ay Lojban is not capable of metaphorical use, but when translating a concep=
t from another language, you need to translate the /meaning/, not the words=
.<br>

<br></div><div>The shortest way I can think of to refer generally to GGGGfa=
thers is {lo nakydze be fi li vo}, &quot;A male ancestor of 4th degree&quot=
;.<br></div><div>=A0</div></div><div class=3D"">-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .a=
ionys.<br>
<br>
.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo&#39;=
o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
</div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br>-- <br>mu&#39;o mi&#39;e .aion=
ys.<br><br>.i.e&#39;ucai ko cmima lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu=
 do zo&#39;o<br>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )<br>
</div></div>

<p></p>

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