Received: from mail-vc0-f183.google.com ([209.85.220.183]:55489) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XI8IT-0000Yy-T9 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:23 -0700 Received: by mail-vc0-f183.google.com with SMTP id id10sf422326vcb.20 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5drQmhMWkdYpE/klqybFpKEyvbCqd3tBWIsYFuPQEMU=; b=NAm7gkRXp16zGj0LDB+cScxyDgWmFvuWAQfJa4gbAIdfGLKy62DJbX+cjWTGgPPpbE phBv/3R9pN8m5nkcVuefkFXzMeKR2vltoCrNdXb5YcI9uTzorfhu+NAkzp/zv3/4cSI5 JKzR7HW0+j/CZtaMC1+0dUJSavrjBeDXhZ//jJVGuWh7FyG9MjcCiXX6shalHshfSZQH 1AvEYHCvKnOJHDeQVKzi3XbrLW3SenDDvfH6Gs3P1HRMzFCKCqmWI8ZYWncSYQuQjukG eRLN4A7dq9CaqbuvcB67H1unBswn/Hfqexcy6BSxLRfmkgqTxqkubQDf0F+0CGA+I4OB s5ig== X-Received: by 10.50.43.196 with SMTP id y4mr445772igl.13.1408073714339; Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:14 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.61.142 with SMTP id p14ls290413igr.18.gmail; Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.222.9 with SMTP id qi9mr8115537pac.28.1408073713765; Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x232.google.com (mail-vc0-x232.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c03::232]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id r5si980964qcl.0.2014.08.14.20.35.13 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::232 as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c03::232; Received: by mail-vc0-x232.google.com with SMTP id la4so2416924vcb.23 for ; Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.220.95.132 with SMTP id d4mr8188814vcn.33.1408073713569; Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.219.1 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.220.219.1 with HTTP; Thu, 14 Aug 2014 20:35:13 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <16045e26-5655-4d22-82ca-d5b98293f098@googlegroups.com> References: <3ebe6c5e-5ace-42bc-b896-8f8c9e642f28@googlegroups.com> <16045e26-5655-4d22-82ca-d5b98293f098@googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2014 23:35:13 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban for great-great-grandfather From: Jacob Errington To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: nictytan@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of nictytan@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::232 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=nictytan@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0158b2f683d2fb0500a2b537 X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - --089e0158b2f683d2fb0500a2b537 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 It would be possible to use {moi} for this, you're right, since it admits a place to give the ordering criterion, which is presumably a unary predicate used to sort the elements in ascending order. (My choice here is somewhat arbitrary since nobody has actually decided what we should put for these ordering criteria.) If the criterion is left out, as it is in {lo patfu vomoi}, then it is left up to context, and if we're talking about ancestors, it might make sense to refer to a gggreat grandfather. On the other hand, if we're talking about parents remarrying or nontraditional family setups, then it could easily refer to something else. (That's the principle of "facultative precision"; since we're saying less things, we're not as precise in the interpretation. Of course, the syntax is always totally unambiguous.) Anyway, writing out a suitable ranking predicate might be challenging; I leave it as an exercise for you :) Just know that {moi} could be used for this, but doing so with precision may require more verbosity than the other solutions mentioned in this thread. .i mi'e la tsani mu'o P.S. if you want to come on IRC sometime, we can build that ranking predicate together if you like. I'm tsani there as well. On Aug 14, 2014 12:17 PM, "TR NS" wrote: > Would something as simple as "4th father" be nice and concise --not sure > how to say that though. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --089e0158b2f683d2fb0500a2b537 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It would be possible to use {moi} for this, you're right= , since it admits a place to give the ordering criterion, which is presumab= ly a unary predicate used to sort the elements in ascending order. (My choi= ce here is somewhat arbitrary since nobody has actually decided what we sho= uld put for these ordering criteria.) If the criterion is left out, as it i= s in {lo patfu vomoi}, then it is left up to context, and if we're talk= ing about ancestors, it might make sense to refer to a gggreat grandfather.= On the other hand, if we're talking about parents remarrying or nontra= ditional family setups, then it could easily refer to something else. (That= 's the principle of "facultative precision"; since we're = saying less things, we're not as precise in the interpretation. Of cour= se, the syntax is always totally unambiguous.) Anyway, writing out a suitab= le ranking predicate might be challenging; I leave it as an exercise for yo= u :) Just know that {moi} could be used for this, but doing so with precisi= on may require more verbosity than the other solutions mentioned in this th= read.

.i mi'e la tsani mu'o

P.S. if you want to come on IRC sometime, we can build that = ranking predicate together if you like. I'm tsani there as well.

On Aug 14, 2014 12:17 PM, "TR NS" <= transfire@gmail.com> wrote:
Would something as simple as "4th father" be nic= e and concise --not sure how to say that though.

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