Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2014 08:34:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Lojban for great-great-grandfather
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On Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:35:15 PM UTC-4, tsani wrote:
>
> It would be possible to use {moi} for this, you're right, since it admits 
> a place to give the ordering criterion, which is presumably a unary 
> predicate used to sort the elements in ascending order. (My choice here is 
> somewhat arbitrary since nobody has actually decided what we should put for 
> these ordering criteria.) If the criterion is left out, as it is in {lo 
> patfu vomoi}, then it is left up to context, and if we're talking about 
> ancestors, it might make sense to refer to a gggreat grandfather. On the 
> other hand, if we're talking about parents remarrying or nontraditional 
> family setups, then it could easily refer to something else. (That's the 
> principle of "facultative precision"; since we're saying less things, we're 
> not as precise in the interpretation. Of course, the syntax is always 
> totally unambiguous.) Anyway, writing out a suitable ranking predicate 
> might be challenging; I leave it as an exercise for you :) Just know that 
> {moi} could be used for this, but doing so with precision may require more 
> verbosity than the other solutions mentioned in this thread.
>
> .i mi'e la tsani mu'o
>
> P.S. if you want to come on IRC sometime, we can build that ranking 
> predicate together if you like. I'm tsani there as well.
>

Wow. That sounds like a very interesting learning experience! I will 
definitely do that when I get a chance. Thanks.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><br>On Thursday, August 14, 2014 11:35:15 PM UTC-4, ts=
ani wrote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left:=
 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><p dir=3D"ltr">It wo=
uld be possible to use {moi} for this, you're right, since it admits a plac=
e to give the ordering criterion, which is presumably a unary predicate use=
d to sort the elements in ascending order. (My choice here is somewhat arbi=
trary since nobody has actually decided what we should put for these orderi=
ng criteria.) If the criterion is left out, as it is in {lo patfu vomoi}, t=
hen it is left up to context, and if we're talking about ancestors, it migh=
t make sense to refer to a gggreat grandfather. On the other hand, if we're=
 talking about parents remarrying or nontraditional family setups, then it =
could easily refer to something else. (That's the principle of "facultative=
 precision"; since we're saying less things, we're not as precise in the in=
terpretation. Of course, the syntax is always totally unambiguous.) Anyway,=
 writing out a suitable ranking predicate might be challenging; I leave it =
as an exercise for you :) Just know that {moi} could be used for this, but =
doing so with precision may require more verbosity than the other solutions=
 mentioned in this thread.</p>

<p dir=3D"ltr">.i mi'e la tsani mu'o</p>
<p dir=3D"ltr">P.S. if you want to come on IRC sometime, we can build that =
ranking predicate together if you like. I'm tsani there as well.</p></block=
quote><div><br></div><div>Wow. That sounds like a very interesting learning=
 experience! I will definitely do that when I get a chance. Thanks.</div><d=
iv><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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