Received: from mail-qa0-f64.google.com ([209.85.216.64]:36558) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XKClq-00008j-VI for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:46:16 -0700 Received: by mail-qa0-f64.google.com with SMTP id m5sf1980778qaj.9 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:46:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=3zwLYJezjr3cGSaTUqeMCE0RoG0S+pg/d8QDby9Z/XA=; b=CTOr1dq7elrlM/az98k85TrHX7zTm/FpCJNjQejRX8LMT+M4dj0cW67x5CUtphNTix hIbNjfxUYegAlErBi945ixGbwk+TSDD5Gp3+9Vwwg7Rpa+uHv0GnILO7j5N/YoZ8UTSS yhNDNn3mMOxvy2GuT4Blzh7Xl24imCXB4HZT4YQVMNn+k1xc3AYSd9G90pZUstUw4d4S sTSAPFbjGaoXLzGHG6qePPPTd6Qlbd3mEVIHLPJKv93Msx8PhlpNK9Yyy3onMKzBAy0H cxAYw9rwnS6gL39/lR43KSHPefmGd68VYCrGGAr316VLk2g6WA6xvEJb4kUu3tpi3LhN 5HNw== X-Received: by 10.50.43.228 with SMTP id z4mr393905igl.3.1408567568196; Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:46:08 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.57.8 with SMTP id e8ls3278185igq.15.canary; Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.50.73.5 with SMTP id h5mr8166947igv.2.1408567567775; Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-vc0-x22f.google.com (mail-vc0-x22f.google.com [2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22f]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id vm5si63894vdb.1.2014.08.20.13.46.07 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22f as permitted sender) client-ip=2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22f; Received: by mail-vc0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id ik5so9830042vcb.34 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.28.146 with SMTP id b18mr3654717vdh.55.1408567567570; Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.221.26.196 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Aug 2014 13:46:07 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <543519c7-ee91-4ef3-90ed-8198ecf22b0d@googlegroups.com> <81ec7c3b-00b5-4bc0-839c-f137bc2c0991@googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:46:07 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] One end cmavo to rule them all From: =?UTF-8?Q?Jorge_Llamb=C3=ADas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 2607:f8b0:400c:c03::22f as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3079ba3481dd29050115b1aa X-Spam-Note: SpamAssassin invocation failed --20cf3079ba3481dd29050115b1aa Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 1:02 PM, TR NS wrote: > > Thanks. I have done that and began the work. Here is my progress: > https://github.com/trans/lojban-sentinels > I wouldn't call "xau" a magic word because it doesn't have the properties of magic words, which are: (1) they modify practically any word (xau modifies only a small set of words) (2) the behavior of the resulting construct is independent of the choice of modified word (for xau it's strongly dependent on it). In your list of transformations you say that "coi ... do'u", becomes "coi ... xau coi", "co'o .... do'u" becomes "co'o ... xau co'o", and so on, but your proposed grammar change also allows "coi ... xau co'o", "co'o ... xau ki'e", and so on. Also, your new grammar is missing "xa'u". You need something like: KEhE-pre <- pre-clause (KEhE | XAhU | XAU KE) spaces? Some terminators however have more than one purpose. If you allow "xau lo" to always replace "ku", for example, then you will be allowing things like "na xau lo" for "na ku". In your first example: .i mi cusku lu mi'e djan. li'u .i mi cusku lu mi'e djan. xau lu .i mi cusku lu mi'e djan. xa'u "xa'u" stands for "xau mi'e", not for "xau lu". > > Although still early (no doubt some important magic interactions still > need consideration) I am thinking of introducing proposal in a new thread. > If you want magic words to give "xau" special treatment rather than treating it like any other non-magic word you will also need to tamper with the magic word grammar rules. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --20cf3079ba3481dd29050115b1aa Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 1:02 PM, TR NS <transfire@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:

Thanks. I have done that and began the work. Here is my progress: https://gi= thub.com/trans/lojban-sentinels

I wouldn't call "xau" = a magic word because it doesn't have the properties of magic words, whi= ch are:

(1) they modify practically any word (xau = modifies only a small set of words)
(2) the behavior of the resulting construct is independent of the choi= ce of modified word (for xau it's strongly dependent on it).
=
In your list of transformations you say that "coi ... d= o'u", becomes "coi ... xau coi", "co'o .... do&= #39;u" becomes "co'o ... xau co'o", and so on, but y= our proposed grammar change also allows "coi ... xau co'o", &= quot;co'o ... xau ki'e", and so on. =C2=A0


Also, your new grammar is missing "= xa'u". You need something like:

KEhE-pre <- pre-clause (KEhE | XAhU | XAU =
KE) spaces?

Some terminators however have more than one purpo= se. If you allow "xau lo" to always replace "ku", for e= xample, then you will be allowing things like "na xau lo" for &qu= ot;na ku".

In your first example:=C2=A0

.i mi cusku lu mi'e djan. l= i'u
.i mi cusku lu mi'e djan. xau lu
.i mi cusku lu mi'e djan. xa'u

"xa'u" stands= for "xau mi'e", not for "xau lu".

=C2=A0
Although still early (no doubt some important magic interactions still nee= d consideration) I am thinking of introducing proposal in a new thread.

If you want magic words to give &quo= t;xau" special treatment rather than treating it like any other non-ma= gic word you will also need to tamper with the magic word grammar rules.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--20cf3079ba3481dd29050115b1aa--