Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>
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 <53F7D98A.5020101@lojban.org>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Revitalizing LLG: Suggestions for the 2014 annual meeting
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On Friday, August 22, 2014 8:00:10 PM UTC-4, lojbab wrote:
>
> On 8/22/2014 3:03 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: 
> > If we are talking about the LLG meetings in a mailing list then using 
> > Lojban and only Lojban is a *must*. 
>
> Only if we wish the participation in meetings to drop even further (and 
> as it is most members are silent after the initial indication of 
> presence). 
>
> > Is this a huge problem for anyone of using Lojban? 
>
> Probably.  I'm not sure that I could do it, and actually be able to 
> communicate. 
>
> >If yes then may be this person should go to 
> > lojban-beginners or lojban mailing list first? 
>
> A lot of members may have left those lists because the discussions are 
> more arcane than they would wish, and/or they don't know the language 
> sufficiently well. 
>
> Remember that the qualifications for membership have always been an 
> interest in and commitment to the organization, rather than to the 
> language. 
>
> > So I suggest using only Lojban for any official documents. 
>
> We aren't getting a set of meeting minutes in English.  Do you think 
> Robin will be able to more easily produce them in Lojban?  And he is 
> presumably as fluent a Lojbanist as we have. 
>
> We would have to start by having a translation of the Bylaws into Lojban 
> (and agreeing on that translation).  I would then suggest translating 
> whichever book of parliamentary procedure that John Cowan specifies into 
> Lojban.  Otherwise we lack the terminology for a parliamentary meeting. 
>
> > I also suggest translating existing documents into a code with members 
> > of the LLG (or at least by le jatna) signing them as official ones. 
>
> Not sure what this means.  Code kia?  Which existing documents?  Any 
> translation of the Bylaws that was going to supplant the current English 
> ones would probably have to be approved as a Bylaw amendment in order to 
> be treated as "official". 
>
> Of course, given that CLL is one of the baseline documents, you may be 
> calling for a translation of CLL into Lojban.  That would be an 
> interesting challenge, and a rather voluminous one.  We'd need 
> all-Lojban dictionary-quality gismu and cmavo lists too, and I never did 
> accomplish the dictionary-quality cmavo list in English. 
>
> > Official documents initially written in Lojban can be translated to 
> > English later. 
>
> Which ones are those? 
>
> I'm not trying to say that the idea isn't laudable - in the (very) long 
> term.  But we aren't anywhere near that capability now, and the members 
> would almost certainly reject such a proposal if forced to consider it. 
>   After all, they didn't think much of my including even one sentence in 
> Lojban the last time I tried. 
>
>
Given this assessment, maybe just starting meetings with an invocation (of 
sorts) in Lojban would be a good compromise.


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<div dir="ltr"><br><br>On Friday, August 22, 2014 8:00:10 PM UTC-4, lojbab wrote:<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">On 8/22/2014 3:03 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote:
<br>&gt; If we are talking about the LLG meetings in a mailing list then using
<br>&gt; Lojban and only Lojban is a *must*.
<br>
<br>Only if we wish the participation in meetings to drop even further (and 
<br>as it is most members are silent after the initial indication of presence).
<br>
<br>&gt; Is this a huge problem for anyone of using Lojban?
<br>
<br>Probably. &nbsp;I'm not sure that I could do it, and actually be able to 
<br>communicate.
<br>
<br>&gt;If yes then may be this person should go to
<br>&gt; lojban-beginners or lojban mailing list first?
<br>
<br>A lot of members may have left those lists because the discussions are 
<br>more arcane than they would wish, and/or they don't know the language 
<br>sufficiently well.
<br>
<br>Remember that the qualifications for membership have always been an 
<br>interest in and commitment to the organization, rather than to the language.
<br>
<br>&gt; So I suggest using only Lojban for any official documents.
<br>
<br>We aren't getting a set of meeting minutes in English. &nbsp;Do you think 
<br>Robin will be able to more easily produce them in Lojban? &nbsp;And he is 
<br>presumably as fluent a Lojbanist as we have.
<br>
<br>We would have to start by having a translation of the Bylaws into Lojban 
<br>(and agreeing on that translation). &nbsp;I would then suggest translating 
<br>whichever book of parliamentary procedure that John Cowan specifies into 
<br>Lojban. &nbsp;Otherwise we lack the terminology for a parliamentary meeting.
<br>
<br>&gt; I also suggest translating existing documents into a code with members
<br>&gt; of the LLG (or at least by le jatna) signing them as official ones.
<br>
<br>Not sure what this means. &nbsp;Code kia? &nbsp;Which existing documents? &nbsp;Any 
<br>translation of the Bylaws that was going to supplant the current English 
<br>ones would probably have to be approved as a Bylaw amendment in order to 
<br>be treated as "official".
<br>
<br>Of course, given that CLL is one of the baseline documents, you may be 
<br>calling for a translation of CLL into Lojban. &nbsp;That would be an 
<br>interesting challenge, and a rather voluminous one. &nbsp;We'd need 
<br>all-Lojban dictionary-quality gismu and cmavo lists too, and I never did 
<br>accomplish the dictionary-quality cmavo list in English.
<br>
<br>&gt; Official documents initially written in Lojban can be translated to
<br>&gt; English later.
<br>
<br>Which ones are those?
<br>
<br>I'm not trying to say that the idea isn't laudable - in the (very) long 
<br>term. &nbsp;But we aren't anywhere near that capability now, and the members 
<br>would almost certainly reject such a proposal if forced to consider it. 
<br>&nbsp; After all, they didn't think much of my including even one sentence in 
<br>Lojban the last time I tried.
<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>Given this assessment, maybe just starting meetings with an invocation (of sorts) in Lojban would be a good compromise.</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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