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[216.109.115.153]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w2si6766668qcl.3.2014.08.24.15.39.03 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sun, 24 Aug 2014 15:39:03 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.115.153 as permitted sender) client-ip=216.109.115.153; Received: from [66.196.81.156] by nm22.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2014 22:39:02 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.129] by tm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2014 22:39:02 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1005.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Aug 2014 22:39:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 885488.7244.bm@omp1005.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 47913 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Aug 2014 22:32:21 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: o21ktPAVM1lXe2x46jbGh.5aVybrpPzKowTLBMaPZ41Jl38 vS9xmlnh8VPUz39AX.uB2SmY1m2y83yhbminL041q8wdrsk1X8koiHlNocKg wsWMQnLb_MH1e1beUCDybiVZVG3aLhY6aSGnXeXd5AfimsnRMjYPlJEmY7.T mhBgN7uIB1pjpj5skVSBfLu1VNeEOJFWs4fuc4rgjr5jHY7GEk6o0MKLrkw_ 2qICfdtZvDi6B.pOoIlB_x1hcY83ZFxP.YzLHwzRpUzSvreJMVPrHpNdauQc yhnLpNuMNmk.5nJ0ajl9rIySJCcBjYqbVxxUaVHw_XwVYbYmiCZ345Fo28bf 7OB7wW7hIzZBHx5YVgJl4.PRhL0DH.QsMGqrsKQt_wll6oqGNd9FN68iV0mu d7JXMfuS7Djk14hil4CDdXsOSXfGpli7qQ6.NZ36PwohRPNcL62NeSopb_rt tzOB.y1RZUySO1ui2_qmGyQnF.HXN2D0YyEA4QBHbMXfQQAS.q3QAXnyj_t4 3mZbUPzlacwLmm2WPnQ2zMbxyT1YApkFjgUR6ngR2IYxwmuvPmA9sjD1Vv8k qOMab.F61dNjfe8Qsq1bDpNY7xF0HGIqJNMSoD4B8drIqQpqnsQRG2nz9Fga aDJcjp352fax7GaDY4sDQqAod.Y6eYUCWM_JMHSpMaiKEnIxnhjFDoiK8by8 usM50lBowHehUABHefqIZcmJXDeVrepaeT0jhdB791JZqKrukGFx2YIMiT2p IM1k9DE27MPbpw0rPBM95VK6wyiBd0sGatYq_trQVYSwiKpEa Received: from [99.92.109.82] by web181104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 15:32:21 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,QnJhdm8hCgoKT24gU3VuZGF5LCBBdWd1c3QgMjQsIDIwMTQgNToxNCBQTSwgQ3JhaWcgRGFuaWVsIDxjcmFpZ2JkYW5pZWxAZ21haWwuY29tPiB3cm90ZToKIAoKClllcywgYnV0IHRoZSByZWFzb24gZm9yIHRoZSB0ZXJtICJyZXZpdGFsaXppbmciICh3aGljaCBJIGNob3NlLCB3aGlsZSBwYXJ0aWNpcGF0aW5nIGluIHRoZSBiYWNrLWNoYW5uZWwgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMgdGhhdCBJIHRoaW5rIGluZmx1ZW5jZWQgdGhlIHN0YXJ0IG9mIHRoaXMgdGhyZWFkKSBpcywgaWYgdGhlIExMRyBpc24ndCBzZWVuIGFzIGQBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.201.700 References: <53F79061.5000706@lojban.org> <53F7D98A.5020101@lojban.org> <53F893AE.8030901@lojban.org> <53F9FD82.6070306@lojban.org> <5bfc4007-3592-4e0a-bb59-4dfdd07842e1@googlegroups.com> <1408905677.8124.YahooMailNeo@web181101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> <1408918066.47611.YahooMailNeo@web181101.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1408919541.15389.YahooMailNeo@web181104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2014 15:32:21 -0700 From: "'John E Clifford' via lojban" Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Revitalizing LLG: Suggestions for the 2014 annual meeting To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.115.153 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Original-From: John E Clifford Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-482694697-1138648025-1408919541=:15389" X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - ---482694697-1138648025-1408919541=:15389 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bravo! On Sunday, August 24, 2014 5:14 PM, Craig Daniel w= rote: =20 Yes, but the reason for the term "revitalizing" (which I chose, while parti= cipating in the back-channel discussions that I think influenced the start = of this thread) is, if the LLG isn't seen as doing anything productive, tha= t's a failure that can be remedied by the people who wish it would particip= ating and then promoting action they see as serving the needs of the Lojban= community. If you think the LLG gets nothing done, and you think this is a problem rat= her than finding the organization to be irrelevant, then you can choose to = be part of the solution. There's a perception by many current Lojban users = that the LLG has failed; my response has been and will be to encourage thos= e who feel that way to help it succeed again. On Aug 24, 2014 6:07 PM, "'John E Clifford' via lojban" wrote: Of course, but (the story goes) LLG does nothing to get them done but natte= r. > > > >On Sunday, August 24, 2014 1:45 PM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: >=20 > > >John,=A0 >the website >social networks >the dictionary >new tutorials >CLL 2.0 >translating gimste into other languages > > >are all projects that either were mentioned on "ongoing projects" page or = assumed as projects by LLG. >Those are important for me as well. > > > >2014-08-24 22:41 GMT+04:00 'John E Clifford' via lojban : > >In summary, people are not becoming members of LLg mainly because they don= 't care about becoming members. =A0And they don't care about becoming membe= rs because LLG doesn't do anything that interests most of the people in que= stion. =A0LLG doesn't use Lojban, doesn't create tools for using Lojban, oc= casionally refers to a set of rules that hinder the development of Lojban (= in some people's eyes, at least), and seems so set up tht it is not going t= o change any of this. =A0Oh, and it keeps bugging people to get to work on = projects that most people think are pointless at best and damaging at worst= , rather than doing creative stuff of the applicants' own devisings. =A0 >>On the whole, these creative Lojbanists would probably be better to conti= nue as they are, ignore LLG -- except maybe take over the website (which sh= ould be easy, since no one else seems to care) . =A0It would be nice, howev= er, if someone would spontaneously choose to update the description of Lojb= an to account for all the changes that have actually been made, ignoring th= e stuff about baselines and approvals and the like. >> >> >> >>On Sunday, August 24, 2014 11:46 AM, mukti wrote: >>=20 >> >> >>Could you remind in two-three sentences of the procedure and requirements= of applying new members? >> >> >>After researching those questions a few weeks ago, I added this to the wi= ki: >>( http://www.lojban.org/tiki/The+Logical+Language+Group#Becoming_a_member= ) >> >> >>Becoming a member >> >> >>According to the=A0bylaws, "persons may be named members upon recommendat= ion for membership by any member and by election by a majority of all the m= embers of the Corporation, in person or by proxy."=A0 >> >>The bylaws specify the following qualifications: >> * competence in fields including linguistics, psychology, philosophy, lo= gic, mathematics, computer science, anthropology, sociology, education, and= human biology >> * high personal dedication to the purposes of The Logical Language Group= as specified in the bylaws=A0=A0 >>At the=A02011 annual meeting,=A0lojbab=A0proposed the following criteria = by which prospective members may be deemed eligible to join the organizatio= n as voting members: >> 1. Working on a project for an extended period of time, especially one r= equiring coordination with other lojbanists >> 2. Assumption of responsibility for non-language chores, such as web sit= e maintenance >> 3. Activity promoting lojban or recruiting lojbanists, such as presentin= g or teaching the language >> 4. Being familiar with the bylaws, and taking the initiative to ask for = membership at a meeting >> 5. Participating in a meeting as a non-voting member >>The proposal and approval of new members is one of the items of regular b= usiness at each=A0annual meeting. >>--=20 >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >>--=20 >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. >>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an= email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >>For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> > > >--=20 >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "lojban" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > --=20 >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "lojban" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ---482694697-1138648025-1408919541=:15389 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bravo!
<= br>
On S= unday, August 24, 2014 5:14 PM, Craig Daniel <craigbdaniel@gmail.com>= wrote:


Yes, but the reason for the term "= revitalizing" (which I chose, while participating in the back-channel discu= ssions that I think influenced the start of this thread) is, if the LLG isn= 't seen as doing anything productive, that's a failure that can be remedied by the people w= ho wish it would participating and then promoting action they see as servin= g the needs of the Lojban community.
If you think the LLG gets nothing done, and you think this= is a problem rather than finding the organization to be irrelevant, then y= ou can choose to be part of the solution. There's a perception by many curr= ent Lojban users that the LLG has failed; my response has been and will be = to encourage those who feel that way to help it succeed again.
On Aug 24, 2014 6:07 PM, "'John E Cliff= ord' via lojban" <lojban@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Of course, but (the story= goes) LLG does nothing to get them done but natter.


On Sunday, August 24, 2014 1:45 PM= , Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
<= /font>


John, 
the website
soci= al networks
the dictionary
new tutorials
CLL 2.0
translating gimste into other languages

are all projects that either were mentioned on "ongoin= g projects" page or assumed as projects by LLG.
Those are important for me as well.


2014-08-24 22:41 GMT+04:00 'John E Clifford' via l= ojban <lojban@googlegroups.com>:
In summary, people are not becoming members of LLg mainly becaus= e they don't care about becoming members.  And they don't care about b= ecoming members because LLG doesn't do anything that interests most of the = people in question.  LLG doesn't use Lojban, doesn't create tools for = using Lojban, occasionally refers to a set of rules that hinder the develop= ment of Lojban (in some people's eyes, at least), and seems so set up tht i= t is not going to change any of this.  Oh, and it keeps bugging people= to get to work on projects that most people think are pointless at best an= d damaging at worst, rather than doing creative stuff of the applicants' ow= n devisings.  
On the whole, these cr= eative Lojbanists would probably be better to continue as they are, ignore = LLG -- except maybe take over the website (which should be easy, since no o= ne else seems to care) .  It would be nice, however, if someone would = spontaneously choose to update the description of Lojban to account for all= the changes that have actually been made, ignoring the stuff about baselin= es and approvals and the like.


On Sunday, August 24, 2014 11:46 A= M, mukti <shunpiker@g= mail.com> wrote:


Could you remind in two-three sentences of = the procedure and requirements of applying new members?

After researching those= questions a few weeks ago, I added this to the wiki:
<= div>

Becoming = a member


According to the bylaws, "persons may be named members upon recommendation= for membership by any member and by election by a majority of all the memb= ers of the Corporation, in person or by proxy." 

The bylaws specify the following qualifications:
  • competence in fields including lingu= istics, psychology, philosophy, logic, mathematics, computer science, anthr= opology, sociology, education, and human biology
  • high personal dedication t= o the purposes of The Logical Language Group as specified in the bylaws  
    • A= t the 2011 annual meeting, lojbab proposed the following criteria by which prospective = members may be deemed eligible to join the organization as voting members:<= /div>
    1. Working on a project for an extend= ed period of time, especially one requiring coordination with other lojbani= sts
    2. Assumption of responsibility for non-language chores, such as web site main= tenance
    3. Activity promoting lojban or recruiting lojbanists, such as= presenting or teaching the language
    4. Being familiar with the bylaws= , and taking the initiative to ask for membership at a meeting
    5. Part= icipating in a meeting as a non-voting member
    T= he proposal and approval of new members is one of the items of regular busi= ness at each annual meeting.
    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
    To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
    Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban.
    For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/o= ptout.


    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
    To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
    Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban.
    For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/o= ptout.


    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
    To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
    Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban.
    For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/o= ptout.


    --
    You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
    To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
    To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
    Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban.
    For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/o= ptout.
    --
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    --
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    ---482694697-1138648025-1408919541=:15389--