Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 07:58:18 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Letter Frequency in lojban
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Ever since I started learning Lojban, there was something about the sound 
of it that felt very unnatural. At first I thought it was just me not being 
familiar with it. As I spent more time with it and listened to usages of 
the language on YouTube, it became clear to me that it was more than this. 
In particular the letter `c` really stood out. Then last night I looked at 
 letter frequency comparisons.

I've seen a couple of different lists for Lojban and may do my own, but I 
think this list

    iaouel'ncmsdkrtpbjzgvfxy

(Note the list on the wiki isn't too far off from this, but includes 
various example lists in its corpus which is not really a good sample of 
usage.)

Now compare this to a wide swath of natural languages, which you can view 
here: http://simia.net/letters/. (Note that the Russian alphbet can be a 
bit misleading so refer to 
http://www.russianlessons.net/lessons/lesson1_main.php)

While I do not think the placement of vowels is so significant, it is 
interesting to note that no natural language appears to have more than four 
vowels at the top of its list, and even that is fairly rare. `u` is almost 
always much further down the list. Also `i` is very rarely the number one 
letter, `e` and `a` dominate. Of course, that is almost certainly from the 
use of `.i` to start sentences. Regardless, Lojban is clearly vowel heavy 
and a lot rides on clearly distinguishing all five of the primary vowel 
sounds.

The more significant difference is in the constants where almost invariably 
the letters `n` `r` `s` `t` are near the top of every natural language. 
Following them are frequently `l` and `d`. `m`, `k` or `g` tend to be in 
the middle but sometimes creep further up. Compare that to Lojban with `l` 
`'` `n` `c` and `m` (l h n sh m) at the top and it really stands out. Only 
`n` is in a position we could deem natural.

Some may dismiss this out of hand, but I think it is important and an 
inescapable reality: Lojban can not become a widely spoken language for the 
simple reason that, in this regard, it is running contrary to many 
millennia of natural language evolution. 

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Ever since I started learning Lojban, there was somet=
hing about the sound of it that felt very unnatural. At first I thought it =
was just me not being familiar with it. As I spent more time with it and li=
stened to usages of the language on YouTube, it became clear to me that it =
was more than this. In particular the letter `c` really stood out. Then las=
t night I looked at &nbsp;letter frequency comparisons.</div><div><br></div=
><div>I've seen a couple of different lists for Lojban and may do my own, b=
ut I think this list</div><div><br></div><font face=3D"courier new, monospa=
ce">&nbsp; &nbsp; iaouel'ncmsdkrtpbjzgvfxy</font><div><font face=3D"courier=
 new, monospace"><br></font></div><div>(Note the list on the wiki isn't too=
 far off from this, but includes various example lists in its corpus which =
is not really a good sample of usage.)<font face=3D"courier new, monospace"=
><br><br></font><div>Now compare this to a wide swath of natural languages,=
 which you can view here: http://simia.net/letters/. (Note that the Russian=
 alphbet can be a bit misleading so refer to http://www.russianlessons.net/=
lessons/lesson1_main.php)<br></div><div><br></div><div>While I do not think=
 the placement of vowels is so significant, it is interesting to note that =
no natural language appears to have more than four vowels at the top of its=
 list, and even that is fairly rare. `u` is almost always much further down=
 the list. Also `i` is very rarely the number one letter, `e` and `a` domin=
ate. Of course, that is almost certainly from the use of `.i` to start sent=
ences. Regardless, Lojban is clearly vowel heavy and a lot rides on clearly=
 distinguishing all five of the primary vowel sounds.</div><div><br></div><=
div>The more significant difference is in the constants where almost invari=
ably the letters `n` `r` `s` `t` are near the top of every natural language=
. Following them are frequently `l` and `d`. `m`, `k` or `g` tend to be in =
the middle but sometimes creep further up. Compare that to Lojban with `l` =
`'` `n` `c` and `m` (l h n sh m) at the top and it really stands out. Only =
`n` is in a position we could deem natural.</div></div><div><br></div><div>=
Some may dismiss this out of hand, but I think it is important and an inesc=
apable reality: Lojban can not become a widely spoken language for the simp=
le reason that, in this regard, it is running contrary to many millennia of=
 natural language evolution.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div></div>

<p></p>

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