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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: It's based strictly on the native written form as used in Wikipedia, so Japanese and Korean don't have sound counts either, just symbol counts. The Lojban order in it is this: iaeolunsrctmkdbgpjfvzyx1209386547hw èqالиéаريةсú مеркóонáл€вوˈبαā•буíجدöع‎ɪт ʲρ́هðйسчنοгςηдяːε–κ’τüי stevo [...] Content analysis details: (0.1 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (lytlesw[at]gmail.com) 2.0 HTML_OBFUSCATE_20_30 BODY: Message is 20% to 30% HTML obfuscation 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message -1.9 BAYES_00 BODY: Bayes spam probability is 0 to 1% [score: 0.0000] 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid --001a11c30308e621f2050175ec66 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's based strictly on the native written form as used in Wikipedia, so Japanese and Korean don't have sound counts either, just symbol counts. The Lojban order in it is this: iaeolunsrctmkdbgpjfvzyx1209386547hw=C3=A0=C3=A8q=D8=A7=D9=84=D0=B8=C3=A9=D0= =B0=D8=B1=D9=8A=D8=A9=D1=81=C3=BA =D9=85=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=BA=C3=B3=D0=BE=D0= =BD=C3=A1=D0=BB=E2=82=AC=D0=B2=D9=88=CB=88=D8=A8=CE=B1=C4=81=E2=80=A2=D0=B1= =D1=83=C3=AD=D8=AC=D8=AF=C3=B6=D8=B9=E2=80=8E=C9=AA=D1=82 =CA=B2=CF=81=CC=81=D9=87=C3=B0=D0=B9=D8=B3=D1=87=D9=86=CE=BF=D0=B3=CF=82=CE= =B7=D0=B4=D1=8F=CB=90=CE=B5=E2=80=93=CE=BA=E2=80=99=CF=84=C3=BC=D7=99 stevo On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: > > > > 2014-08-25 18:58 GMT+04:00 TR NS : > > Ever since I started learning Lojban, there was something about the sound >> of it that felt very unnatural. At first I thought it was just me not be= ing >> familiar with it. As I spent more time with it and listened to usages of >> the language on YouTube, it became clear to me that it was more than thi= s. >> In particular the letter `c` really stood out. Then last night I looked = at >> letter frequency comparisons. >> >> I've seen a couple of different lists for Lojban and may do my own, but = I >> think this list >> >> iaouel'ncmsdkrtpbjzgvfxy >> >> (Note the list on the wiki isn't too far off from this, but includes >> various example lists in its corpus which is not really a good sample of >> usage.) >> >> Now compare this to a wide swath of natural languages, which you can vie= w >> here: http://simia.net/letters/. >> > > This list doesnt contain Mandarin pinyin which is important. > > (Note that the Russian alphbet can be a bit misleading so refer to >> http://www.russianlessons.net/lessons/lesson1_main.php) >> >> While I do not think the placement of vowels is so significant, it is >> interesting to note that no natural language appears to have more than f= our >> vowels at the top of its list, and even that is fairly rare. `u` is almo= st >> always much further down the list. Also `i` is very rarely the number on= e >> letter, `e` and `a` dominate. Of course, that is almost certainly from t= he >> use of `.i` to start sentences. Regardless, Lojban is clearly vowel heav= y >> and a lot rides on clearly distinguishing all five of the primary vowel >> sounds. >> >> The more significant difference is in the constants where almost >> invariably the letters `n` `r` `s` `t` are near the top of every natural >> language. Following them are frequently `l` and `d`. `m`, `k` or `g` ten= d >> to be in the middle but sometimes creep further up. Compare that to Lojb= an >> with `l` `'` `n` `c` and `m` (l h n sh m) at the top and it really stand= s >> out. Only `n` is in a position we could deem natural. >> >> Some may dismiss this out of hand, but I think it is important and an >> inescapable reality: Lojban can not become a widely spoken language for = the >> simple reason that, in this regard, it is running contrary to many >> millennia of natural language evolution. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Group= s >> "lojban" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send a= n >> email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --001a11c30308e621f2050175ec66 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's based strictly on the native written form= as used in Wikipedia, so Japanese and Korean don't have sound counts e= ither, just symbol counts.=C2=A0
The Lojban order in it is this:
iae= olun<= span title=3D"4.25%" style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:'Fontin Sans= ',Fontin-Sans,'Myriad Pro','Lucida Grande','Lucida = Sans Unicode',Lucida,Verdana,Helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:48px;displa= y:inline-block;vertical-align:middle">srctmkdbgpjfvzyx<= /span>120= 9386547hw=C3=A0=C3=A8q=D8=A7=D9= =84=D0=B8=C3=A9=D0=B0=D8=B1=D9=8A=D8=A9=D1= =81=C3=BA=C2=A0=D9=85=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=BA= =C3=B3=D0=BE=D0=BD=C3=A1=D0=BB=E2=82=AC=D0=B2=D9=88=CB=88=D8=A8=CE=B1=C4= =81=E2=80=A2=D0=B1=D1=83=C3=AD=D8=AC=D8=AF=C3=B6=D8=B9=E2=80=8E=C9=AA<= /span>=D1=82=CA=B2=CF=81=CC=81=D9=87=C3=B0=D0= =B9=D8=B3=D1=87=D9=86=CE=BF=D0=B3=CF=82=CE=B7=D0=B4=D1=8F=CB=90=CE=B5<= /span>=E2=80=93=CE=BA=E2=80=99=CF=84<= /span>=C3=BC=D7=99
stevo


On Mon, Aug 25, 2014 at 11:23 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:



2014-08-25 18:58 GMT+04:00 TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>:

Ever since I started l= earning Lojban, there was something about the sound of it that felt very un= natural. At first I thought it was just me not being familiar with it. As I= spent more time with it and listened to usages of the language on YouTube,= it became clear to me that it was more than this. In particular the letter= `c` really stood out. Then last night I looked at =C2=A0letter frequency c= omparisons.

I've seen a couple of different lists for Lojban an= d may do my own, but I think this list

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 iaouel'ncmsdkrtpbjzgvfxy
(Note the list on the wiki isn't too far off from thi= s, but includes various example lists in its corpus which is not really a g= ood sample of usage.)

<= div> Now compare this to a wide swath of natural languages, which you can view h= ere: http://simia.n= et/letters/.

Th= is list doesnt contain Mandarin pinyin which is important.

(= Note that the Russian alphbet can be a bit misleading so refer to http://www.russianlessons.net/lessons/lesson1_main.php)

While I do not think the placement of vowels is s= o significant, it is interesting to note that no natural language appears t= o have more than four vowels at the top of its list, and even that is fairl= y rare. `u` is almost always much further down the list. Also `i` is very r= arely the number one letter, `e` and `a` dominate. Of course, that is almos= t certainly from the use of `.i` to start sentences. Regardless, Lojban is = clearly vowel heavy and a lot rides on clearly distinguishing all five of t= he primary vowel sounds.

The more significant difference is in the constants whe= re almost invariably the letters `n` `r` `s` `t` are near the top of every = natural language. Following them are frequently `l` and `d`. `m`, `k` or `g= ` tend to be in the middle but sometimes creep further up. Compare that to = Lojban with `l` `'` `n` `c` and `m` (l h n sh m) at the top and it real= ly stands out. Only `n` is in a position we could deem natural.

Some may dismiss this out of hand, but I think it= is important and an inescapable reality: Lojban can not become a widely sp= oken language for the simple reason that, in this regard, it is running con= trary to many millennia of natural language evolution.=C2=A0

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

=

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--001a11c30308e621f2050175ec66--