Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 12:53:12 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Letter Frequency in lojban
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On Monday, August 25, 2014 11:51:44 AM UTC-4, And Rosta wrote:
>
> You are looking at letter frequencies, which is only a dim and distorted 
> reflection of phone frequencies, too dim and distorted to be worth wasting 
> time over, I think.
>
Actually I wasn't. That site just makes it easy to get a rough overall 
sense of it. I took into account, as much as could, the difference between 
grapheme and phoneme. That's why I gave the link to the Russian alphabet. 
But I have also been listening to samples on Youtube of dozens of language. 
So while you make a good point, I do not think it "too dim and distorted" 
to be of no consideration.
 

> Vowels are auditorily more distinct than consonants, but are less stable 
> diachronically. Having vowels as the frequentest phones strikes me as an 
> optimal design feature for an engelang.
>
I disagree. When people make spelling mistakes it is almost always the 
vowels they get wrong. And it is the vowels that tend to drift from dialect 
to dialect. Nonetheless I think the vowel usage it Lojban is that abnormal.

Your idea that having atypical letter or phone frequencies renders a 
> language incapable of being widely spoken strikes me as lacking rational or 
> empirical basis. Your thesis is not formulated clearly enough for it to be 
> possible to cite counterexample.
>
It's not incapable of being spoken. I think it is incapable of "catching 
on" due the dissimilarities. Its an open question whether there is a 
significant physiological reason that common phonology has evolved the way 
it has.

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<div dir=3D"ltr">On Monday, August 25, 2014 11:51:44 AM UTC-4, And Rosta wr=
ote:<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex=
;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;"><p dir=3D"ltr">You are loo=
king at letter frequencies, which is only a dim and distorted reflection of=
 phone frequencies, too dim and distorted to be worth wasting time over, I =
think.</p></blockquote><div>Actually I wasn't. That site just makes it easy=
 to get a rough overall sense of it. I took into account, as much as could,=
 the difference between grapheme and phoneme. That's why I gave the link to=
 the Russian alphabet. But I have also been listening to samples on Youtube=
 of dozens of language. So while you make a good point, I do not think it "=
too dim and distorted" to be of no consideration.</div><div>&nbsp;<br></div=
><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-left: 0.8ex;bo=
rder-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<p dir=3D"ltr">Vowels are auditorily more distinct than consonants, but are=
 less stable diachronically. Having vowels as the frequentest phones strike=
s me as an optimal design feature for an engelang.</p></blockquote><div>I d=
isagree. When people make spelling mistakes it is almost always the vowels =
they get wrong. And it is the vowels that tend to drift from dialect to dia=
lect. Nonetheless I think the vowel usage it Lojban is that abnormal.</div>=
<div><br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0;margin-=
left: 0.8ex;border-left: 1px #ccc solid;padding-left: 1ex;">
<p dir=3D"ltr">Your idea that having atypical letter or phone frequencies r=
enders a language incapable of being widely spoken strikes me as lacking ra=
tional or empirical basis. Your thesis is not formulated clearly enough for=
 it to be possible to cite counterexample.</p></blockquote><div>It's not in=
capable of being spoken. I think it is incapable of "catching on" due the d=
issimilarities. Its an open question whether there is a significant physiol=
ogical reason that common phonology has evolved the way it has.</div><div><=
br></div></div>

<p></p>

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