Received: from mail-la0-f58.google.com ([209.85.215.58]:44266) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XM9th-0000Wb-60 for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:06:26 -0700 Received: by mail-la0-f58.google.com with SMTP id ty20sf1568637lab.13 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:06:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=+nylRPgobMFfZcsV17/43e8WVgq0T14vm7k0D/XmyV0=; b=kkb75echTUP/+E/3Ibauup9kvdvVOH7yvOFJt2QmdUokLzlxsg6WgBfLanqxrM/E/F CwwlGNdJ77dq7EP/UMcXGlrkMpIhTuuuyXCXIyCB9ur0+9oOmZIH++5rXHCIqfpbPaJz 4yuGvh82ebmM5Y49Kpthvglfd/P5+iAF6szzLgesLrOCuUPzj8B91/wlIuC9cPo3y1cz V1/xE70YxopZt83+1mKdyH38F38SpyqTaGqEUmnrTffXlduehWvHg5gQoJ2i99DXImeq zOwGQupoGy/+gDeqApD0z9Lim4Cac366MjDDrS/oP5/RSJFLUmT0PAS5BQrLKVN/z45x lDig== X-Received: by 10.152.1.133 with SMTP id 5mr2859lam.10.1409033176990; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:06:16 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.152.42.209 with SMTP id q17ls392188lal.105.gmail; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:06:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.112.157.231 with SMTP id wp7mr2299672lbb.1.1409033176037; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-we0-x236.google.com (mail-we0-x236.google.com [2a00:1450:400c:c03::236]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id cj2si156958wid.2.2014.08.25.23.06.16 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:06:16 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::236 as permitted sender) client-ip=2a00:1450:400c:c03::236; Received: by mail-we0-x236.google.com with SMTP id k48so14189696wev.41 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:06:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.180.108.1 with SMTP id hg1mr20252771wib.25.1409033175904; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.194.89.193 with HTTP; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 23:06:15 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <9d95f350-41dc-4e7a-95ed-6ce6d69773f8@googlegroups.com> References: <8D08DAC0705BEED-E34-41DDD@webmail-d263.sysops.aol.com> <48cd77a8-350c-472c-b0f7-e1f527500707@googlegroups.com> <390cce56-e2e2-480e-8287-d58023e9ae6a@googlegroups.com> <2997de16-c428-4e61-ab16-0e593b58adfa@googlegroups.com> <9d95f350-41dc-4e7a-95ed-6ce6d69773f8@googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2014 10:06:15 +0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Letter Frequency in lojban From: Gleki Arxokuna To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:400c:c03::236 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f3ba097ed379f0501821936 X-Spam-Note: SpamAssassin invocation failed --e89a8f3ba097ed379f0501821936 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 2014-08-26 0:13 GMT+04:00 TR NS : > > > On Monday, August 25, 2014 11:23:38 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote: > > >> This list doesnt contain Mandarin pinyin which is important. >> >> > You are right. I didn't factor Mandarin into this as a percentage of it's > world population. And that appears to be the exception that accounts for > Lojban's odd frequency counts and heavy use of `c`. Personally, I don't > think it serves Lojban well. I'm curious how many Chinese speakers are > learning Lojban and what their impressions of the phonology are. > 100% of Lojbanists speak or understand English. Well, this of course doesn't mean that we should rely on English phonology. Here is a table where I propose mapping Mandarin phonology onto the Lojbani one. Mostly it agrees with how Chinese words were Lojbanized in gismu creation process. However, note that Mandarin is not the only dialect (although forces onto the Chinese people) so its weight in gismu creation process might be lower than chosen. gismu took phonemes from Mandarin but took weight from Chinese-megadialect. What can you do with Lojban? 1. Select gismu that you don't like (e.g. those that have {c} phoneme) and think of concepts that not necessarily coincide in their meaning with already existing gismu 2. Create new brivla for these not exactly synonymous concepts and add them to jbovlaste.lojban.org 3. Use them, write texts with them Thus they can get more popularity. See also http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=borrowing_from_Loglan for more "ugly" phonemes. > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --e89a8f3ba097ed379f0501821936 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable



2014-08-26 0:13 GMT+04:00 TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>:


On Monday, August 25, 2014 11:23:3= 8 AM UTC-4, la gleki wrote:
=C2=A0
This list = doesnt contain Mandarin pinyin which is important.


You= are right. I didn't factor Mandarin into this as a percentage of it= 9;s world population. And that appears to be the exception that accounts fo= r Lojban's odd frequency counts and heavy use of `c`. Personally, I don= 't think it serves Lojban well. I'm curious how many Chinese speake= rs are learning Lojban and what their impressions of the phonology are.

100% of =C2=A0Lojbanists speak or un= derstand English.
Well, this of course doesn't mean that we s= hould rely on English phonology.

Here is a table=C2=A0where I propose mapping Mandarin phonology on= to the Lojbani one. Mostly it agrees with how Chinese words were Lojbanized= in gismu creation process.

However, note that Mandarin is not the only dialect (al= though forces onto the Chinese people) so its weight in gismu creation proc= ess might be lower than chosen. gismu took phonemes from Mandarin but took = weight from Chinese-megadialect.

What can you do with Lojban?
1. Select gismu = that you don't like (e.g. those that have {c} phoneme) and think of con= cepts that not necessarily coincide in their meaning with already existing = gismu
2. Create new brivla for these not exactly synonymous concepts and add= them to jbovlaste.lojban.org
3. Use them, write texts with them

Thus t= hey can get more popularity.



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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban.
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--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
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