Received: from mail-qc0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]:59524) by stodi.digitalkingdom.org with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1XOUkp-00027T-KK for lojban-list-archive@lojban.org; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 09:46:56 -0700 Received: by mail-qc0-f189.google.com with SMTP id w7sf1394912qcr.26 for ; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 09:46:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=20120806; h=references:message-id:date:from:reply-to:subject:to:in-reply-to :mime-version:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=9RdwsBbAtMGTIORClf0pZxc0qR9jn3VjZvCX4ng6DJs=; b=KJ/ZfiVfvPV9cT6eiBEnac7db6KLEgcVFjRe0WM0QuK5oh4/36sCTiHYEwciGm4aN1 QLy+NNw8kRp6ucotLL3hfKj9smDrww9UvuPC6HqBaflFzL/PIGlriZoXvmL5DskVqSDa KeExfB3vxIpF57GaMiY/sbP2miFC3ANBaZqwJJ9kFMs7N3fKub5R4ulxBhymaAgOX7HX WWvL2ZlmCBENF+Kw3ZLEfyJkWQku8MqOY2XEVn86sGwWdc7zlf1rDGkiL4PcqTWcqrBj OGzVdZ8ksJd6h8kG7qVC0pf25fB1hIC4QoH7wJFaxkGtnuYWAQE7+51YpEXZQC131G7U DGnA== X-Received: by 10.50.33.4 with SMTP id n4mr373174igi.14.1409590009015; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 09:46:49 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.50.77.41 with SMTP id p9ls1921402igw.21.gmail; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 09:46:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.66.65.75 with SMTP id v11mr8244913pas.30.1409590008482; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 09:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nm4-vm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com (nm4-vm2.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com. [216.109.114.113]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id i4si279840qcm.0.2014.09.01.09.46.48 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Mon, 01 Sep 2014 09:46:48 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.114.113 as permitted sender) client-ip=216.109.114.113; Received: from [66.196.81.164] by nm4.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2014 16:46:48 -0000 Received: from [66.196.81.128] by tm10.access.bullet.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2014 16:46:47 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1004.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 01 Sep 2014 16:46:47 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 923097.25067.bm@omp1004.access.mail.bf1.yahoo.com Received: (qmail 4683 invoked by uid 60001); 1 Sep 2014 16:46:47 -0000 X-YMail-OSG: 9PSCxF4VM1nt0kL76wHswYU5MtzN7JBBqUjAFcwosoZyMW3 I7LMuLEVabauibt8rOgwX8fEElXl73YZ2R4IOKm3QHYWdTo07H86bzh4Kdfg j8DfrzLn9iOJHpEtpA1_xo8Ty37MbrsXeWLLbLjW09n1aoBv79KzUSrslb_. C3rKmJEEYbWIIZjk1xqCSTjsq3hGfh_3oImNko9meaZngfglxZexpCuY5pqW ZU2g.rYes8zWUZaNGIdNGgz8P5e8OIZGPBLY5uwn2dUPXluqmxb_loz2_Xpf b2euwVl5EfzqWi3AmZBuVpVDRabv3XiR2kPwfKDz590ZK2ccizLbSBQcUSLf uvFYBcDeqONci26g3tRg.FxlBk0XzzChDBVWHTbWR9_I3NsZBw0j1kWK8p5x oXKUrd1Uw03ikfKESoe.iFw1B7yVPOVeDbrw9nDYHgCmJtslLFYFc0xp5G2M D5ai6VC6dcoxlfnjWs4N.Vi2mZ7lnszMEoWIHwqxEKojyycqkNy_tnkdWMQ4 WvgrYrz.zjY.X0BITch3xly3F3ip4KnTPEZXjTh99urUgEmxx9Tyo_OsIiKD kbrhbe8A9sVVPAsNQV_S3FlMMED9wQ1fIeH0Ov6LF4DjyMVDbvHdyETvvWZ8 Pw9ccBB.uS7iNeH0DsFVU4IyMqi5fb0ah4G.Vxv72jJ5NxUnI9SyNsKUp5Tz d5FnZ_OMBz6eOmzQe8ZgTJ83TrSW5hughuXxCkuEGjfmimd0FjQIRKEWbpPS FMIdlGDltt2wMO684w4gnl1cYmpG4mrLBnqiBle7RKgZKQrKgFeGtSSCDTYX hfUL8HKVNHyaFg7azq5mDMzDsZiGFMb7v97ZNL3cRnP3DKG_z1vG_lOvKvGZ mi4GWAdClNs5t6JJlAxw2Ux1jkZdMoHwsQpcl163ggAGx4KqsZ4f1FFMzKFb j9mavLPP_5Ww5OrKRa9ojoTSKrH_7SCE8JaoiUykYQJMT79JiaRkxstp22R_ y3nAV8OdVI91QkC4CPPi7FEAF0pLf8PUzpk1IIw-- Received: from [99.92.109.82] by web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 01 Sep 2014 09:46:47 PDT X-Rocket-MIMEInfo: 002.001,SW4gdGhlIGNvbnRleHQgb2YgdGhlIHByZXNlbnQgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMsIGl0IHdvdWxkIHNlZW0gdGhhdCB0aGUgcG9pbnQgb2Ygc2VtYW50aWMgY2F0ZWdvcml6YXRpb24gaXMgaGV1cmlzdGljLCBub3QgcGhpbG9zb3BoaWNhbC4gIFNvLCBhbGwgdGhhdCBpcyBuZWVkZWQgaXMgbm90IGNvbXBsZXRlIGFjY3VyYWN5IGJ1dCB1c2VmdWwgZ3JvdXBpbmdzICh0eXBpY2FsbHksIHNpbWlsYXIgcGxhY2Ugc3RydWN0dXJlcywgaG93ZXZlciB0aGF0IG1heSBiZSBkZWZpbmVkKS4gIEFuZCB1c2VmdWwgZm9yIHNlbnQBMAEBAQE- X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.203.696 References: <68bfe745-9092-41e8-9fee-46c9b0f6d9e0@googlegroups.com> Message-ID: <1409590007.81958.YahooMailNeo@web181106.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 09:46:47 -0700 From: "'John E Clifford' via lojban" Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Idea about taxonomic vocabualry To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 216.109.114.113 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass header.i=@yahoo.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=yahoo.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: X-Google-Group-Id: 1004133512417 List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: , List-Unsubscribe: , X-Original-From: John E Clifford Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-910415156-216549761-1409590007=:81958" X-Spam-Score: -1.9 (-) X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_bar: - ---910415156-216549761-1409590007=:81958 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In the context of the present discussions, it would seem that the point of = semantic categorization is heuristic, not philosophical. So, all that is n= eeded is not complete accuracy but useful groupings (typically, similar pla= ce structures, however that may be defined). And useful for sentence const= ruction and analysis (knowing how many places is always handy -- and what t= hey likely mean) as well as general semantic area. With a little vocabular= y adjustment, I suppose a few dozen categories would be enough, though you = need to show that they actually improve learning (which will be hard, since= we don't know much about learning Lojban now). On Monday, September 1, 2014 9:56 AM, Gleki Arxokuna wrote: =20 Semantical categorization of the universe can't be done since most concepts= have more than one useful tag. Look at this attempt: http://mw.lojban.org/index.php?title=3Dsemantic_categorization_of_gismu It is not perfect and no attempt can be perfect. Also read this: http://www.alamut.com/subj/artiface/language/johnWilkins.html 2014-09-01 18:36 GMT+04:00 TR NS : I was thinking about stevo's `CV` categorized gismu (still would like to se= e that, btw) and recently reading about the notion of taxonomic languages (= https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_language) when a neat idea stru= ck me. If the the first three letters of a gismu related all such words --f= or the sake of argument let's say all fruit words started with `fru`, so th= en `frupa` might mean apple, `furba` banana, `furca` strawberry, etc. then = my idea is that there could be a special cmavo that created a "group contex= t", call it `xi'o... xi'u` and then one could say thins like: > > > fruxi'o pa .e ba .e ca [xi'u] > > >Which would be the same as > > > frupa .e fruba .e fruca > > > >Of course this cmavo is a little odd b/c it works more like an inflection.= And unfortunately Lojban doesn't have any sort of taxonomic vocabulary wha= tsoever. So it doesn't really fly. But I thought it was a neat idea anyway,= so I thought I'd share. > > >.trans. > > --=20 >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups = "lojban" group. >To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an = email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. >For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. ---910415156-216549761-1409590007=:81958 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In the context of the present discussions, it woul= d seem that the point of semantic categorization is heuristic, not philosop= hical.  So, all that is needed is not complete accuracy but useful gro= upings (typically, similar place structures, however that may be defined). =  And useful for sentence construction and analysis (knowing how many p= laces is always handy -- and what they likely mean) as well as general sema= ntic area.  With a little vocabulary adjustment, I suppose a few dozen= categories would be enough, though you need to show that they actually imp= rove learning (which will be hard, since we don't know much about learning = Lojban now).


=
On Monday, September 1,= 2014 9:56 AM, Gleki Arxokuna <gleki.is.my.name@gmail.com> wrote:
=


Semantical categorization of the universe can= 't be done since most concepts have more than one useful tag.
Look at t= his attempt:
It is not perfect and no attempt can be perfect.

Also read this:


2014-09-01 18:36 GMT= +04:00 TR NS <transfire@gmail.com>:
I was thinking about stevo's `CV` categorized gismu (still= would like to see that, btw) and recently reading about the notion of taxo= nomic languages (https://en.wikipe= dia.org/wiki/Philosophical_language) when a neat idea struck me. If the= the first three letters of a gismu related all such words --for the sake o= f argument let's say all fruit words started with `fru`, so then `frupa` mi= ght mean apple, `furba` banana, `furca` strawberry, etc. then my idea is th= at there could be a special cmavo that created a "group context", call it `= xi'o... xi'u` and then one could say thins like:

    fruxi'o pa .e ba .e ca [xi'u]

Which would be the same as

    frupa .e fruba .e fruca

Of course this cmavo i= s a little odd b/c it works more like an inflection. And unfortunately Lojb= an doesn't have any sort of taxonomic vocabulary whatsoever. So it doesn't = really fly. But I thought it was a neat idea anyway, so I thought I'd share= .

.trans.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/o= ptout.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group= /lojban.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/o= ptout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an e= mail to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http:= //groups.google.com/group/lojban.
For more options, visit http= s://groups.google.com/d/optout.
---910415156-216549761-1409590007=:81958--